Trump is in talks with Russia to end the war

[putnam6]

I think a lot of people forget that before all this nonsense of the SMO, and even after the so called annexation vote, Ukraine and Russia were sharing the port in Crimea and had an agreement for dual use. 

Ukraine and Russian navy were both docked there, not to mention commercial traffic.

Yeah, some will have to get past thier emotions to have a real discussion.

[Oldcarpy2]

But Putin carries on targeting civilians, which is a war crime, whilst Trump blames Zelensky for starting the War and generally blaming him for everything.

He's Putin's Poodle and will yap whatever Putin tells him to.

It's beyond obvious.

[xuenchen]

But Putin carries on targeting civilians, which is a war crime, whilst Trump blames Zelensky for starting the War and generally blaming him for everything.

He's Putin's Poodle and will yap whatever Putin tells him to.

It's beyond obvious.

But? NATO failure! 
EU weakening! 
NATO MUST Act!

[Oldcarpy2]

But? NATO failure! 
EU weakening! 
NATO MUST Act!

Sorry, what does any of that mean?

Trump is bending over to Putin and chucking Ukraine under the bus .

But, you bang on about NATO and the EU?

No, Trump needs to get a set.

He won't, don't you wonder why?

Probably not.

[xuenchen]

Sorry, what does any of that mean?

Trump is bending over to Putin and chucking Ukraine under the bus .

But, you bang on about NATO and the EU?

No, Trump needs to get a set.

He won't, don't you wonder why?

Probably not.

But when Zelenskyy was getting money and weapons from the U.S. before, Russia kept gaining ground without Trump being President? Now The EU needs to put in troops like they said and quadruple the funding! Russia will be in Kiev any day! Ukraine could topple! 

[guyfriday]

But Putin carries on targeting civilians, which is a war crime, whilst Trump blames Zelensky for starting the War and generally blaming him for everything.

He's Putin's Poodle and will yap whatever Putin tells him to.

It's beyond obvious.

If anyone cares to remember at this point:
The only reason Russia went into Ukraine was because Zelensky decided to cut off water and electricity to the southern portion of Ukraine, the area that was mostly inhabited by Ethnic Russians. Those people were pleading with Zelensky and with the EU to do something. Russia ended up having to go in on a humanitarian mission, then got attacked by Ukrainians military and mercenary groups. After a few months Zelensky was going to sit down with Russa and find a truce, but then Boris Johnson at the behest of NATO and the EU told Zelensky not to meet with Putin, and from there the war has been going on as is. 

At this point Zelensky only wants unconditional victory and is unwilling to settle for peace with Russia, which makes ending this war impossible. Russian just wants their deal of having a Black Sea port, and equal rights for Ethnic Russians in Ukraine. 

Countering against all this is the fact that NATO as a whole, exclusion of the US, needs Russia as an aggressor to stay relevant, and the EU needs Ukrainian money to continue grifting the US since the US pulled out of the Paris Climate Scam. 

Imagine if McCain, Graham, and Biden's groups didn't involve themselves in Ukraine back in '14, there would be no war.

[UltraBudgie]

If anyone cares to remember at this point:
The only reason Russia went into Ukraine was because Zelensky decided to cut off water and electricity to the southern portion of Ukraine, the area that was mostly inhabited by Ethnic Russians. Those people were pleading with Zelensky and with the EU to do something. Russia ended up having to go in on a humanitarian mission, then got attacked by Ukrainians military and mercenary groups. After a few months Zelensky was going to sit down with Russa and find a truce, but then Boris Johnson at the behest of NATO and the EU told Zelensky not to meet with Putin, and from there the war has been going on as is. 

At this point Zelensky only wants unconditional victory and is unwilling to settle for peace with Russia, which makes ending this war impossible. Russian just wants their deal of having a Black Sea port, and equal rights for Ethnic Russians in Ukraine. 

Countering against all this is the fact that NATO as a whole, exclusion of the US, needs Russia as an aggressor to stay relevant, and the EU needs Ukrainian money to continue grifting the US since the US pulled out of the Paris Climate Scam. 

Imagine if McCain, Graham, and Biden's groups didn't involve themselves in Ukraine back in '14, there would be no war.

Lol yeah, it was totally provoked. Every time the legacy media say "Russia's unprovoked aggression" it's like, cringe. Sure boys. Though at this point I think Russia is like "fuck it let's take Odesa too", haha. Can't say I blame them.

[Freeborn]

If anyone cares to remember at this point:
The only reason Russia went into Ukraine was because Zelensky decided to cut off water and electricity to the southern portion of Ukraine, the area that was mostly inhabited by Ethnic Russians. Those people were pleading with Zelensky and with the EU to do something. Russia ended up having to go in on a humanitarian mission, then got attacked by Ukrainians military and mercenary groups. After a few months Zelensky was going to sit down with Russa and find a truce, but then Boris Johnson at the behest of NATO and the EU told Zelensky not to meet with Putin, and from there the war has been going on as is. 

At this point Zelensky only wants unconditional victory and is unwilling to settle for peace with Russia, which makes ending this war impossible. Russian just wants their deal of having a Black Sea port, and equal rights for Ethnic Russians in Ukraine. 

Countering against all this is the fact that NATO as a whole, exclusion of the US, needs Russia as an aggressor to stay relevant, and the EU needs Ukrainian money to continue grifting the US since the US pulled out of the Paris Climate Scam. 

Imagine if McCain, Graham, and Biden's groups didn't involve themselves in Ukraine back in '14, there would be no war.

Russia has used every excuse possible in its attempts to justify its invasion of a non-threatening neighbour. None of them can legitimise its act of war.

'Humanitarian mission'?
Please, not even Putin has ever called it that.

Russia bribed the Ukrainian President of the time to renege on his election promise to forge closer links with the EU and instead chose to agree to trade deals with Russia.....all against the wishes of the majority of the Ukrainian people. He then brutally suppressed demonstrations against his corrupt dealings.

Russia was emboldened by the relative lack of response from the international community after its illegal annexation of Crimea. Kremlin funded and armed Militia's started agitating throughout the Luhansk and Donetsk region. They targeted official Ukrainian government installations and establishments, terrorised non-Orthodox Christians and Jews and generally conducted a campaign specifically designed to provoke a response from the Ukrainian government, which promptly occurred. 
Its undeniable that at times that this retaliation was at times brutal and possibly excessive - just as The Kremlin has predicted.

Have other countries meddled in Ukraine?
Possibly, even probably......still doesn't justify an invasion and all the subsequent death and destruction.

Zelensky may be a lot of things, but he's not an idiot.
He knows a military 'unconditional victory' is impossible.
But as the elected President of a country that has been invaded and is under a constant barrage of missile and drone attacks - often deliberately directed at civilian targets - whilst facing overwhelming odds and forces on several fronts - he can not publicly state that the concession of land is probable if any sort of peace is to be agreed.
Not only is it defeatist it is also unconstitutional according Ukrainian law and statutes.

'Ethnic Russians' always had 'equal rights' in Ukraine, please show me how they haven't.

Contrary to popular belief 'ethnic Russians' were never in the majority in the now occupied regions of Luhansk and Donetsk. If I remember correctly 57% and 58% of all citizens in those Oblasts were Ukrainian. The vast majority of 'ethnic Russians' who did live there were forcibly placed there during Stalin's great industrialisation programmes and were concentrated in the urban areas. The huge swathes of rural towns and villages were almost totally of Ukrainian ethnicity.
Of course all that has changed since the invasion and large numbers of Ukrainian people, including children who have been separated from their parents, have been forcibly relocated throughout Russia mainly in the remote and secluded regions - a practice that has been common throughout Russian history.

Its sad that so many Americans have become enamoured with Putin, a man who is the antithesis of everything the USA is supposed to represent.
A discussion for another time and place methinks.

Apologies to anyone who has had the patience to read the whole post, I do have a tendency to rabbit on at times.

[putnam6]

Its sad that so many Americans have become enamoured with Putin, a man who is the antithesis of everything the USA is supposed to represent.
A discussion for another time and place methinks.

Apologies to anyone who has had the patience to read the whole post, I do have a tendency to rabbit on at times.

I always read your posts FB, good to see you here

Americans aren't enamored with Putin FFS.

America was tired of paying for a war that had no winnable plan, as you have pointed out 

Not our monkey, not our circus..

America indeed has lots to do domestically 

Can't have it both ways, world on one hand, you say America is in decline on the other, whinging we need your help. 

Our leaders don't agree; our militaries don't agree; our intelligence services don't agree, but let's go to war with Russia over Ukraine.

Doesn't that mean NATO has failed its primary objective? 

Especially when there is so much animosity, easily 70% of the UK and Europe absolutely hate Trump. THAT DOESN'T WORK IN A WAR against the 3rd largest army. To be successful there has to be consensus and agreement and a fucking plan to win.

3 years in the UK and the EU offer none of that. 

America was paying pensions for the Ukrainian population... till April of 2024

Respectfully FTN


Here's America's efficient Army at work...please note, this was set up during Trump's first term and continued through Biden's. We can't run a simple Army charity without fleecing the American taxpayer....

[Image: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/...ay.com.ico]
USA Today
https://www.usatoday.com › story › news › nation › 2024 › 07 › 24 › janet-yamanaka-mello-texas-army-fraud-case-sentencing › 74535623007
Texas woman gets 15 years for stealing nearly $109M from Army to buy ...
Jul 24, 2024Mello was a civilian employee for the Army and worked as a child, youth, and school services financial program manager for the Army Morale, Welfare, and Recreation program at Fort Sam Houston in ...

[Oldcarpy2]

"Russia ended up having to go in on a humanitarian mission, then got attacked by Ukrainians military and mercenary groups. "

Wow. Just, Wow!