Trump is in talks with Russia to end the war

[putnam6]

I know I’m awful, but I wonder if Donald is telling him he will always have a job, just put his high heels back on…

[sahgwa]

All we are saying is give peace a chance. 
The Donald really needs some exercise.  I hate seeing him up close, it just reminds me of a sentient bag of McDonalds.  OK that's my pointless post of the weekend. 
I hope they got something useful hashed out in that pretty setting there. 

Todays news RE Thursday and today

https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-key-ru...te-2064527
 As well as banning NATO membership for Ukraine, Washington's proposals include recognition of Russia's 2014 annexation of Crimea and freezing the war largely along existing battle lines.
But this would leave Moscow in de facto control of the four Ukrainian regions says it has annexed but does not fully control—Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia and such a prospect has prompted anger among Ukrainian figures.
Olga Oliker, director of the Europe and Central Asia program at the International Crisis Group, told Newsweek on Thursday that while there is already de facto recognition of Russian control of Crimea internationally, the Trump administration's proposal for formal recognition would be a big blow to international law.
She also said it was notable that until now Moscow said it did not want a ceasefire unless the Ukrainians leave big parts of Ukraine.
But expressing willingness to the Trump administration to agree a deal with lines ostensibly frozen, while delaying aspects they had said were critical, like curtailing Ukraine's military size, is a big change in Russia's position, Oliker said.
"Maybe this isn't the deal but maybe there is a deal to be had for a ceasefire and then for further negotiations that could lead to something more sustainable," she added.
What People Are SayingUkrainian president Volodymr Zelensky said Ukraine was working with allies on security guarantees that were "not Article 5 itself

[putnam6]

All we are saying is give peace a chance. 
The Donald really needs some exercise.  I hate seeing him up close, it just reminds me of a sentient bag of McDonalds.  OK that's my pointless post of the weekend. 
I hope they got something useful hashed out in that pretty setting there. 

Todays news RE Thursday and today

https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-key-ru...te-2064527
 As well as banning NATO membership for Ukraine, Washington's proposals include recognition of Russia's 2014 annexation of Crimea and freezing the war largely along existing battle lines.
But this would leave Moscow in de facto control of the four Ukrainian regions says it has annexed but does not fully control—Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia and such a prospect has prompted anger among Ukrainian figures.
Olga Oliker, director of the Europe and Central Asia program at the International Crisis Group, told Newsweek on Thursday that while there is already de facto recognition of Russian control of Crimea internationally, the Trump administration's proposal for formal recognition would be a big blow to international law.
She also said it was notable that until now Moscow said it did not want a ceasefire unless the Ukrainians leave big parts of Ukraine.
But expressing willingness to the Trump administration to agree a deal with lines ostensibly frozen, while delaying aspects they had said were critical, like curtailing Ukraine's military size, is a big change in Russia's position, Oliker said.
"Maybe this isn't the deal but maybe there is a deal to be had for a ceasefire and then for further negotiations that could lead to something more sustainable," she added.
What People Are SayingUkrainian president Volodymr Zelensky said Ukraine was working with allies on security guarantees that were "not Article 5 itself

This is where Russia can't argue Ukraine's military size and grab territory, Ukraine needs to be able to build its forces, and can't lose territory Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia. 

If they want a smaller military in Ukraine, take less territory, a lot less....

[sahgwa]

This is where Russia can't argue Ukraine's military size and grab territory, Ukraine needs to be able to build its forces, and can't lose territory Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia. 

If they want a smaller military in Ukraine, take less territory, a lot less....

To put it country simple, both sides want 'too much'.
It's like a bad divorce case.
At this point my humble opinion would be agree to late 2014 borders including part of Crimea to Russia but joint use of the port
Russia keeps 'republics of luhansk and donetsk' but Ukraine keeps kherson others Russia did not annex

[Oldcarpy2]

yeah yeah ok. Ukraine is all about love and peace and smelling unicorn farts. Which is why after agreeing to having a peace talk with Russia, they go off and blow up a Russian General. Zelensky and the politicians that tell him what to do don't want peace, they want ethnic cleansing of Russian citizens. 

Go on though and refuse to look at the facts of the situation. I guess "Feelz" mean more the truth. This war will not end as long as other nations are profiting off of it and Zelensky is allowed to take his cut of it. Get rid of Zelensky and replace him with some one else and watch how quickly this war ends. 


I would be interested in hearing how and why you think the war started since you seem think you know more than anyone else about it.

You misrepresent what I actually have said and go off on a personal attack.

Putin's war is not a "humanitarian" mission. The very idea is laughable.

In times of War, enemy Generals are fair game.

Civilians are not

As for a ceasefire, Russia has notched up it's attacks on civilians targets. You good with that?

You mean replace Zelensky with another Russian stooge?

That didn't work out too well last time.

No I don't pretend to know more about things than anyone else.

Probably enough to point and laugh at someone who claims this War was a humanitarian mission, mind.

[putnam6]

To put it country simple, both sides want 'too much'.
It's like a bad divorce case.
At this point my humble opinion would be agree to late 2014 borders including part of Crimea to Russia but joint use of the port
Russia keeps 'republics of luhansk and donetsk' but Ukraine keeps kherson others Russia did not annex

Yep, Russia needs to feel some pain from the "SMO, aka financial pain, a lease on the territories for X number of years.

Ukraine gets financially rewarded for territories lost. 

Im not sure after hostilities, they will be able to use the port together, but hopefully so 

it's got to hurt for them to keep all the territories

[Oldcarpy2]

Yep, Russia needs to feel some pain from the "SMO, aka financial pain, a lease on the territories for X number of years.

Ukraine gets financially rewarded for territories lost. 

Im not sure after hostilities, they will be able to use the port together, but hopefully so 

it's got to hurt for them to keep all the territories

Russia keeps Crimea?

Putin replaced by a new leader in a free and fair election overseen by UN observers?

Just a thought..... ?

[xuenchen]

Zelenskyy wants full victory!!
Sure.
Full blown NATO offensive is the only way!
Ukraine can't do it alone! (can they? ) 
   "Press. Press. Pull."

Zelensky Publicly Rejected Trump’s Peace Plan, Preferring Push For Maximalist Total Victory Scenario

 
Even as talks progress and President Donald Trump says there is hope for a deal, Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky made clear he rejects President Donald Trump’s proposal to recognise Russia’s occupation of Crimea as a price of peace, saying the Ukrainian constitution calls for nothing less than absolute victory.
 
This week, President Donald Trump said in interview with Time Magazine that one of the ultimate outcomes of the war will be that “Crimea will stay with Russia”, and later that a deal was close, with Ukraine and Russia needing now to meet in person in negotiations for the first time to “finish it off”.
 
Yet the rhetoric coming from Kyiv in recent days is far from complimentary about President Trump’s proposals. An American blueprint for peace in Ukraine was put before combatants this week and quickly rejected as politically impossible by Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky, who cited the national constitution as making anything but total victory impossible.
 
 

"But But But"

[xuenchen]

Russia keeps Crimea?

Putin replaced by a new leader in a free and fair election overseen by UN observers?

Just a thought..... ?

butwhatabout . . . . 

Crimea Votes Overwhelmingly to Join Russia

[Oldcarpy2]

butwhatabout . . . . 

Crimea Votes Overwhelmingly to Join Russia
[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95-QItX3I5A]

Of course it did, oh those free and fair Referenda. Much like Putin's election victories.

Pass the sick bag....