Trump is in talks with Russia to end the war

[sahgwa]

Watching the UN Security Council and the Russian Federation Representative is denying sending drones to kill Ukrainian civilians in residential areas.

Chaperoning toddlers is accurate, but the hate may never end between the two sides.

Oh never. And its just fueled on either side by profiteers and imperialists. 
Thats why we can't really rely on either of them to actually enact a ceasefire. We need some kind of physical third party presence at this point. As much as I hate to say that.  
It worked in Kosovo. 
I am hoping for physical surveillance over physical humans.

[quintessentone]

Oh never. And its just fueled on either side by profiteers and imperialists. 
Thats why we can't really rely on either of them to actually enact a ceasefire. We need some kind of physical third party presence at this point. As much as I hate to say that.  
It worked in Kosovo. 
I am hoping for physical surveillance over physical humans.

I think Zelensky knows that, that is why he has re-ignited that resources agreement with Trump, if I understand correctly what Zelensky was speaking about. But would having American business interests on Ukrainian soil be a deterrent to Putin invading again?

Edit to add:

At the UN Security Council just listening to the Ukrainian Representative listing the strikes on hospitals, hotels, schools, residential buildings...all civilian targets.

[sahgwa]

I think Zelensky knows that, that is why he has re-ignited that resources agreement with Trump, if I understand correctly what Zelensky was speaking about. But would having American business interests on Ukrainian soil be a deterrent to Putin invading again?

I don't think enough people are trying to get into devil's advocate mode in regards to Russia and their psychology on this whole thing. The whole MO of the SMO was ostensibly to push back against NATO expansion and CIA Color Revolution, and to remove Nazis in Kiev , who were supported by 'Nazis in Washington' I think were the words of Medvedev (?) .  In their mind it was a surgical strike at regime change, against US-backed regime change,  to 'help' Ukraine be more independent from Western fascist meddling. 

That said, I don't think there would be any impetus for Russia to 'invade' Ukraine, if American business interests were on the ground in Ukraine, as long as USA helped 'clean' the government of Kiev.   The 'business interests' would just be there as a side effect of USA 'helping'  
Therefore, in this scenario, Trump would have to show Putin that he is helping to make Ukraine more independent and less staunchly Anti Russia.  so called.

[putnam6]

Yep.

If I'd used a source from "merry old England" that would get sneered at so you can't really win.

I don't get the hatred of Zelensky.

Hating Zelensky has nothing to do with it. It WAS an unwinnable war unless we were prepared to send in NATO troops, AMERICA wasn't going to, rightfully so, and even Europe and the UK are wishy-washy AF that's not how one goes to war with Russia, Bernard



All along since before the start of the SMO, my position of not wanting the US to get involved was based on it being an unwinnable meat grinder of war. A war still with no plan for victory against an army 7 times as large all the while it sucks up billions of dollars into the graft and corruption-ridden Ukraine. 

Said this in the first thread on ATS and we argued about it then too, OVER 3 YEARS AGO

This in itself warrants a J.Jonah Jameson's sarcastic laughing gif for both of us wasting time trying to convince the other, especially when even if we were to change each other's minds it wouldn't affect whatever the actual outcome will be one iota

[quintessentone]

I don't think enough people are trying to get into devil's advocate mode in regards to Russia and their psychology on this whole thing. The whole MO of the SMO was ostensibly to push back against NATO expansion and CIA Color Revolution, and to remove Nazis in Kiev , who were supported by 'Nazis in Washington' I think were the words of Medvedev (?) .  In their mind it was a surgical strike at regime change, against US-backed regime change,  to 'help' Ukraine be more independent from Western fascist meddling. 

That said, I don't think there would be any impetus for Russia to 'invade' Ukraine, if American business interests were on the ground in Ukraine, as long as USA helped 'clean' the government of Kiev.   The 'business interests' would just be there as a side effect of USA 'helping'  
Therefore, in this scenario, Trump would have to show Putin that he is helping to make Ukraine more independent and less staunchly Anti Russia.  so called.

So, if a ceasefire and peace is somehow reached, what happens if the Ukrainian people want to keep Zelensky in power?

[sahgwa]

So, if a ceasefire and peace is somehow reached, what happens if the Ukrainian people want to keep Zelensky in power?

I don't see how USA or Russia would have any say in that, then.
However, constitutionally speaking, Zelensky would be ineligible to simply 'keep in power'  , as he already has over stayed his term.  He would have to be elected for a second term.

[quintessentone]

I don't see how USA or Russia would have any say in that, then.
However, constitutionally speaking, Zelensky would be ineligible to simply 'keep in power'  , as he already has over stayed his term.  He would have to be elected for a second term.

Of course, that is what I meant. The polls there, if we can believe in polls in a war torn country, have Zelensky's approval rating at 57% as of February, 2025.

[sahgwa]

Well, I don't trust polls or elections.  In my opinion they are all co-opted, bought, and broadcasted nonsense. So that is poor basis for debating, unfortunately. :D

[Oldcarpy2]

"Therefore, in this scenario, Trump would have to show Putin that he is helping to make Ukraine more independent and less staunchly Anti Russia. so called."

What if the people want to be anti Russia?

After being invaded, bombed, shelled, droned etc by Russia I don't think they will be very fond of Russia?

[sahgwa]

"Therefore, in this scenario, Trump would have to show Putin that he is helping to make Ukraine more independent and less staunchly Anti Russia. so called."

What if the people want to be anti Russia?

After being invaded, bombed, shelled, droned etc by Russia I don't think they will be very fond of Russia?

The people can be whatever they want, as long as the shooting stops, right? Isn't that the whole point of a ceasefire?

And isn't the whole back and forth that you are engaging in, merely more evidence that third party monitoring and assistance in obtaining this ceasefire is needed?