Trump is in talks with Russia to end the war

[UltraBudgie]

Field testing drone ECM. Advantage.

Keeping weapons development pipeline from stalling. Advantage.

Forcing Russia into a reactive strategic stance. Advantage.

Influencing European energy policy. Advantage.

And the list could go on...

The US doesn't need to "win" in order to succeed with Ukraine. If Zelensky wasn't such a bought-and-paid-for putz, he would have acknowledge this from the beginning. It was obvious to anyone who was paying attention, and those not beholden to the agenda have been saying it since day one...

[RickyD]

Field testing drone ECM. Advantage.

Keeping weapons development pipeline from stalling. Advantage.

Forcing Russia into a reactive strategic stance. Advantage.

Influencing European energy policy. Advantage.

And the list could go on...

The US doesn't need to "win" in order to succeed with Ukraine. If Zelensky wasn't such a bought-and-paid-for putz, he would have acknowledge this from the beginning. It was obvious to anyone who was paying attention, and those not beholden to the agenda have been saying it since day one...

Doesn't seem like a smart play in my eyes as Russia doesn't want to be our enemy...and hasn't for a long time. We keep making them the enemy...and constantly encroaching on them and starting crap. If we are hell bent on doing that lets do it to a real enemy over by China. Lets get some revolution going on in Vietnam or Thailand. Lets help the people in China revolt...why make an enemy when we have plenty actively trying to subvert us?

[UltraBudgie]

Doesn't seem like a smart play in my eyes as Russia doesn't want to be our enemy...and hasn't for a long time. We keep making them the enemy...and constantly encroaching on them and starting crap. If we are hell bent on doing that lets do it to a real enemy over by China. Lets get some revolution going on in Vietnam or Thailand. Lets help the people in China revolt...why make an enemy when we have plenty actively trying to subvert us?

That's the calculus of Empire. Nixon and Kissinger already conquered China as much as is possible without nukes or bioweapons. They're held in check on multiple fronts by multiple mechanisms, such the trilateral configuration in the Pacific, and keeping Russia as the enemy of the US is part of the economic/military pincer they're in. It may not seem like it, reading Empire propaganda, but China is actually as close to an ally (read: economic vassal) as a culturally unassimilated non-NATO country can be.

It's like the movie Highlander. There can be only one. All friendships and alliances are mere temporary convenience. The tiers of assimilation are, first, economic (WTO), then military (NATO), then cultural (FVEY). It won't stop until the only places not speaking English are quaint little human nature preserves. Gotta maintain biodiversity, after all, it might be useful.

Many haven't noticed, or pretend not to, but the US is the military hub of an unacknowledged world-spanning Empire bent on eventual global domination. As far as I can tell, the project's been in motion since at least the 1800s. These things take time. This isn't cynicism, it's realpolitik.

There are no friends, and more subtly, no "enemies". Russia understands this. It explains what might seem like their vast patience. They're playing the game too.


Edit: Please take all this as the ramblings of a crazy conspiracy theorist, if you'd like to. I'll make no claims to factuality; I'm merely describing a certain lens for viewing geopolitics in a way that perhaps helps it make more sense. Here's a link about Kissinger's secret China plans (the pincer I mentioned): https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB66

[Freeborn]

I guess we will see how it goes...I know Putin has been very adamant that there will be no negotiations until Ukraine actually has elections again and votes in a head of state. Currently their head of state has suspended elections indefinitely...

Which is hardly unusual when a country has been invaded and is fighting for its survival.

As for Putin demanding new elections in Ukraine; pretty ironic considering he bars all viable opposition from standing against him in Russian 'elections' - or defenestrating/novichoking/gulaging them - and is himself in reality a de facto dictator who rules Russia with an iron fist, allows no dissention or criticism and has built up a personal fortune estimated between $400 billion and $600 billion all on a salary of £100,000 per annum.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

As for Putin demanding new elections in Ukraine; pretty ironic considering he bars all viable opposition from standing against him in Russian 'elections' - or defenestrating/novichoking/gulaging them

The entire war was made up because Putin didn't get his Lukashenko-styled puppet into office. The candidate that wanted to unite philosophically back with Mother Russia lost the election to the one wanting to join NATO.

Anything less than Zelensky retaining power is a concession to the ultimate goal of Russia. Because "new free and fair elections" is a euphemism for "an election Putin won't fail to rig this time."

How about the world just make Putin listen to this song until he realizes even his absurd wealth and power doesn't change it. Just lock him in a freezing cell in Siberia and torture him with it.



And any other equally power mad leader that seeks to emulate the "essence of sore lose" with made up adversaries for national virtue to rally against.

[Oldcarpy2]

[quote="IdeomotorPrisoner" pid='27390' dateline='1738779557']

"The entire war was made up because Putin didn't get his Lukashenko-styled puppet into office. The candidate that wanted to unite philosophically back with Mother Russia lost the election to the one wanting to join NATO."

That's pretty much it.

Putin throws his toys out the pram and spits his dummy about NATO nukes on his borders but is fine with putting his in Belarus?

That icon of democracy and free and fair elections ?

[sahgwa]

I am wondering what people think of the Orange Revolution on Maidan square that overthrew the Ukrainian elections and are highly blamed on CIA interference utilising Ukrainian neo-Nazis? Do we think this is legal and fair, because it is anti-Putin?
Asking for the nonpartisan community.

[Maxmars]

It seems a tragic shame that the 'results' of this 'war' were never what we saw as the 'end game' in our highly publicized "event" modality.

The presence and 'use' of 'celebrity' identities seems to have bedazzled many into believing something that wasn't being said... that it was really all about cabals of power competing for 'virtual' power.  "Use it or lose it," appearing to be the paradigm in 'defensive' play.  The gave up on strategy and went tactical because they could do so easily.

The core adversaries are NATO and Russia.  To some Americans, being part of NATO (ahem) is an American value... to some. 
To others, NATO is a geopolitical entity unto itself... a "collective" which, for better or worse, survived the end of the Cold War with the Soviets... it's raison d'être.

While it's true the status quo can have it's benefits, wars over them always wound us all.

[Oldcarpy2]

I am wondering what people think of the Orange Revolution on Maidan square that overthrew the Ukrainian elections and are highly blamed on CIA interference utilising Ukrainian neo-Nazis? Do we think this is legal and fair, because it is anti-Putin?
Asking for the nonpartisan community.

Yanukovych?

He did not seem very popular with Ukrainians. No wonder really, what with being a Russian stooge and all:

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Viktor-Yanukovych

CIA?

No. Just a massively corrupt stooge trying to do Russias bidding against the will of Ukrainians who did not really want to go back under Russia's heel.

[Freeborn]

I am wondering what people think of the Orange Revolution on Maidan square that overthrew the Ukrainian elections and are highly blamed on CIA interference utilising Ukrainian neo-Nazis? Do we think this is legal and fair, because it is anti-Putin?
Asking for the nonpartisan community.

But that's not quite what happened was it.
Yanukovych was elected on a pro-EU ticket. 
A deal had been agreed with the EU and approved by the democratically elected Ukrainian assembly yet Yanukovych refused to sign it and instead signed an agreement with Russia much to the anger of the Ukrainian people who were overwhelmingly n favour of the deal with the EU. The resulting peaceful demonstrations against Yanukovych and his Russian deal were brutally suppressed on Yanukovych's direct orders.

Eventually he was removed from office and fled to Russia where he currently resides enjoying the thirty pieces of silver he received for betraying his nation and its people.

No talk or evidence of 'neo Nazi' interference or involvement. That has only appeared after Putin's invasion of Ukraine via that bastion of truth and honesty The Kremlin.