Trump is in talks with Russia to end the war

[putnam6]

But, you are suggesting it's 100 billion out of American taxpayer's pockets, which it isn't?

No plan for ending the war? Ukraine agreed to a ceasefire.

Putin wants unacceptable conditions. He has no intention of ending his War.

He is playing Trump for the mug that he is.

LOL sure it is, what would have happened to the 100 billion if weren't spent in Ukraine, it would have gone to pay for other shit, that taxes were also taken out of to pay for. 

It's not as if the DoD turns a profit...

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavli...e-n2619752



MAZE

@mazemoore
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Biden on aid to Ukraine - "It's going to allow pensions and social support to be paid to the Ukrainian people so they have something in their pocket." Biden is guaranteeing pensions and welfare for Ukrainians but can't guarantee aid for Ohio.

American taxpayers have been funding pensions in Ukraine, a notoriously corrupt country, for more than a year. Today in Kyiv, Biden pledged an additional $500 million. 
Meanwhile, Social Security in the United States is on the road to ruin.
"In 2034, Social Security revenues are projected to equal 77 percent of the program’s scheduled outlays, resulting in a 23 percent shortfall. Thus, CBO estimates that Social Security benefits would need to be reduced by 23 percent in 2034. The gap between scheduled and payable benefits would widen to 35 percent by 2096 and would remain stable thereafter," a report from the Congressional Budget Office shows. 

[UltraBudgie]

LOL sure it is, what would have happened to the 100 billion if weren't spent in Ukraine, it would have gone to pay for other shit, that taxes were also taken out of to pay for. 

that's not how money works when you are the government and can simply deficit finance as much spending as you want. like they did during covid, to the tune of several trillion dollars. and that they do all the time with the military budget. taxes exist for many reasons: to shape the income curve, to discourage chaotic asset liquidity in the owner class, as a form of conformity and coercive control -- none of those reasons is "to pay for things for the american people". the national debt can never be paid, the currency trend-line is always inflationary, and the american people have for almost 100 years existed under this somewhat benevolent-to-them system of absolute financial tyranny, and almost no one sees it any more. most americans can't even balance their account, much less understand the difference between household economics and government macroeconomics. it's frustrating, because the ignorance is clearly deliberate and predatory. at this point, on the larger stage, america seems to exist for one reason: to provide unlimited spending and support to a system of propaganda and force-based domination ensuring the perpetuation of a world-spanning system of extractionist capitalism. and it doesn't seem like it's run by the people, for the people, that's for sure.

[Oldcarpy2]

LOL sure it is, what would have happened to the 100 billion if weren't spent in Ukraine, it would have gone to pay for other shit, that taxes were also taken out of to pay for. 

It's not as if the DoD turns a profit...

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavli...e-n2619752


[Image: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/161...normal.jpg]
MAZE

@mazemoore
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Biden on aid to Ukraine - "It's going to allow pensions and social support to be paid to the Ukrainian people so they have something in their pocket." Biden is guaranteeing pensions and welfare for Ukrainians but can't guarantee aid for Ohio.

Still not 100 billion, tho. Let alone the 350 billion Trump claimed.

Have to say, your sources of information seem to be rabid MAGA ones?

[putnam6]

Still not 100 billion, tho. Let alone the 350 billion Trump claimed.

Have to say, your sources of information seem to be rabid MAGA ones?

Keep moving the goalposts, you ask for links and then dismiss them. 

It doesn't matter he won't get any more than what is currently allocated which is all the American taxpayer cares about.

[Oldcarpy2]

Keep moving the goalposts, you ask for links and then dismiss them. 

It doesn't matter he won't get any more than what is currently allocated which is all the American taxpayer cares about.

https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-...ng-ukraine

"A large share of the money in the aid bills has been spent in the United States, paying for American factories and workers to produce the various weapons that are either shipped to Ukraine or that replenish the U.S. weapons stocks the Pentagon has drawn on during the war. One analysis by the American Enterprise Institute found that Ukraine aid is funding defense manufacturing in more than seventy U.S. cities."

[putnam6]

https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-...ng-ukraine

"A large share of the money in the aid bills has been spent in the United States, paying for American factories and workers to produce the various weapons that are either shipped to Ukraine or that replenish the U.S. weapons stocks the Pentagon has drawn on during the war. One analysis by the American Enterprise Institute found that Ukraine aid is funding defense manufacturing in more than seventy U.S. cities."

First of all the Council on Foreign Relations completely supports NATO, There is nothing wrong with it but it is the truth, It's a think tank that works on SOLEY that purpose of course it will be pro-supporting Europe in all its endeavors. I am not against supporting Europe and the UK and want Ukraine to win, but IN THIS ONE CASE  it isn't possible without paying a terrible price in human deaths and suffering along with costing 100s of billions of dollars trying to "free" Ukraine.

For more perspective 
My state's GDP is approaching 40 billion now do whatever you have accepted as figures for what America has sent to Ukraine and divide it by 70, whatever they get it is just a fraction.

For further perspective..

America's GDP in 2024 is 30.337 trillion dollars, it's the fact there is no end in sight and no plan(s) to win the war. The plan is to outlast Russia,thats it. Im not suggesting it can't happen but we will have to pay 3-4 times as much as we have already paid in human death in suffering and even then it's not guaranteed

 furthermore notes on a recent Council on Foreign Relations 

https://www.cfr.org/event/transition-202...-relations

 Panelists discuss transatlantic ties under a second Trump administration, NATO burden-sharing, and the future of European strategic autonomy. 

This meeting is part of CFR’s Transition 2025 series, which examines the major foreign policy issues confronting the Trump administration.
 

The U.S. assistance under the Biden administration. And the shorthand for that campaign of military assistance is too little too late, or enough for Ukraine not to lose but not enough for Ukraine to win. 

 Ukraine needs so much more, there's nothing wrong with some Americans being reluctent to continue to write the checks

[Image: https://media0.giphy.com/media/kQmr2OwBT.../giphy.gif]  
 
But it’s an interesting message to the Trump administration, who will now be in the position of trying to assemble, accumulate leverage, on both parties—both of the two warring parties, right? So you can imagine an element of leverage on Putin that says something like, look, we know now you’re under pressure by the indigenous Ukrainian campaign on long range strikes, with Ukrainian drones and so forth. I think they’ve hit recently ten of the top twelve oil refineries inside Russia. Imagine if that were worsened for Russia by way of our taking off the restrictions on long range precision strike systems.

[putnam6]

that's not how money works when you are the government and can simply deficit finance as much spending as you want. like they did during covid, to the tune of several trillion dollars. and that they do all the time with the military budget. taxes exist for many reasons: to shape the income curve, to discourage chaotic asset liquidity in the owner class, as a form of conformity and coercive control -- none of those reasons is "to pay for things for the american people". the national debt can never be paid, the currency trend-line is always inflationary, and the american people have for almost 100 years existed under this somewhat benevolent-to-them system of absolute financial tyranny, and almost no one sees it any more. most americans can't even balance their account, much less understand the difference between household economics and government macroeconomics. it's frustrating, because the ignorance is clearly deliberate and predatory. at this point, on the larger stage, america seems to exist for one reason: to provide unlimited spending and support to a system of propaganda and force-based domination ensuring the perpetuation of a world-spanning system of extractionist capitalism. and it doesn't seem like it's run by the people, for the people, that's for sure.

So the funds Congress approved for Ukraine are only gathered for Ukraine and float off into space otherwise?

I love ya man but explain like it's Sunday morning and the person you are explaining it to has been up all night.

[UltraBudgie]

So the funds Congress approved for Ukraine are only gathered for Ukraine and float off into space otherwise?

I love ya man but explain like it's Sunday morning and the person you are explaining it to has been up all night.

Yeah, pretty much. Think of it like a credit card. If you have "approved" splurging on things with money you don't have, then you decide not to, you don't have money "left over" to spend now, do you?

Anyway, for goodness sake get some rest. Macroeconomics and the Federal Reserve aren't worth wasting a Sunday worrying about.

[putnam6]

Yeah, pretty much. Think of it like a credit card. If you have "approved" splurging on things with money you don't have, then you decide not to, you don't have money "left over" to spend now, do you?

Anyway, for goodness sake get some rest. Macroeconomics and the Federal Reserve aren't worth wasting a Sunday worrying about.

Not worried at all, Im learning here...



but think thats a gross oversimplification of how the Democrats look at spending year-to-year especially when we have a new administration elected specifically to cut spending. Look at the USAID fraud FFS

If we are going to oversimplify this, then quit taking people's taxes if we can magically make money appear and spend it without it being removed from the balance sheet later. 

We have all heard to old adage the Federal and State departments get budgets for each year and they know they must spend every dollar or they run the risk of not getting the same funding the next year. So ergo they piss away the money, is not much difference from Biden's last spasm of releasing 10s of million at the end of his Presidency because he knew the initiative would be removed in Trump's administration. Just because those funds were earmarked for the Dems it doesn't mean they were subtracted from Uncle Sam's piggy bank

Im more than enjoying my Sunday BTW just a long night ...

I have a nice buzz going, got the window open, on a beautiful Spring day in my environs, straightening up, and getting ready to watch some March Madness B-Ball

[Darkorange]

Who might be able to "give" all that?

I doubt that Ukrainians would be happy with that.

Look, in this scenario NATO borders would get closer to Russian. Right?
Second benefit...it is not the end of the world. Central Ukraine could become another Euro Hong Kong. It also become an international trade crossroad taxing the hell out of trade parties. Kyiv could get a status of a hub with tons of cash flowing. And I probably was wrong, brits or french still can get their beef...Establish a stock exchange floor there once all is settled.