Plane collides with Blackhawk helicopter Washington DC

[Zaphod58]

Why would they be flying with night vision in a major city with all the lights wouldn't that disrupt vision I know mine do not like light of any kind especially bright city lights.

Continuity of government night certification flight.

[DontTreadOnMe]

The instructor pilot on the Blackhawk had 1,000 hours, and the pilot being evaluated had 500 hours. Both were familiar with the airspace, and were on night vision goggles for the flight, which may have hampered their ability to identify the PSA flight.

Looking at radar data, I believe the helicopter crew identified AAL3130 as the PSA flight. They were behind them and on a similar approach, inbound to runway 01, while the PSA flight did a circular approach to 33.

TCAS Resolution Alert descents are inhibited below 1450 feet, and Resolution Alerts are inhibited completely below 500 feet, including audible alerts. They would have gotten a Traffic Alert but unless they were looking at the TCAS screen, they wouldn’t have known. At that altitude and position on the approach they would have been looking at the runway, not in the cockpit.

At that point in both flights, and at that altitude ...is there really anything the Air Traffic Controllers could have done?

[quintessentone]

So the NTSB investigators seem to be on the track of human error in the form of fatigue, which could be the control tower and/or pilot(s) but I wonder about the confusion created by the military and control tower/passenger planes being on different communication frequencies. It seems that they are looking for human error, but I am just speculating.

BTW, tblog I follow is by a pilot with 20,000 hours in the air and he said in a previous video about some other incident, that 1,000 flight hours is extremely low in the sense of experiencing any and all events that makes an experienced pilot.

[Zaphod58]

At that point in both flights, and at that altitude ...is there really anything the Air Traffic Controllers could have done?

Absolutely. They had a collision alert on the radar for a good 10-15 seconds or more before impact. A ten degree left turn to PAT25 and they miss.

[Zaphod58]

So the NTSB investigators seem to be on the track of human error in the form of fatigue, which could be the control tower and/or pilot(s) but I wonder about the confusion created by the military and control tower/passenger planes being on different communication frequencies. It seems that they are looking for human error, but I am just speculating.

BTW, tblog I follow is by a pilot with 20,000 hours in the air and he said in a previous video about some other incident, that 1,000 flight hours is extremely low in the sense of experiencing any and all events that makes an experienced pilot.

A thousand hours total is extremely low. A thousand hours in a specific platform isn't necessarily. And no pilot is going to experience everything. A long Blackhawk mission is two hours, with many of their flights being an hour or less. When you're talking short flights like that, 1,000 hours gets quite a bit of experience, and deals with quite a bit.

They're looking at human error, because a midair is always human error on some level. The question is who, and how.

[Zaphod58]

Forty intact bodies have been recovered, with portions of other bodies having been recovered. Dive operations have been suspended due to dangerous conditions. The Coast Guard is going to move equipment in to secure wreckage and recover all the bodies that remain. The CRJ broke into three pieces and landed upside down in the water. The deepest part of the water where the wreckage is, is about 8 feet deep. 

The NTSB has recovered both data recorders from the CRJ, and will send them to the NTSB offices near DCA. The UH-60 will also have a crash survivable memory unit that will be recovered and downloaded to confirm important data from the Blackhawk flight.

[pianopraze]

Hmmm…

Just 24 HOURS before an American Airlines flight collided with a Blackhawk at Reagan National Airport, ANOTHER American flight had to abort landing due to a helicopter crossing its flight path at the same airport AA4514 can be seen on radar having to go around a make a second attempt, and is currently under investigation. This should NOT be happening!

Twitter link

[Zaphod58]

Hmmm…

Twitter link

Where's the evidence of a helicopter? Audio recording of it? Anything?

Edit:

I tracked down and listened to the ATC audio, and he reported an RA. The only traffic was PAT01 which was below the threshold for an RA. They were descending through 1900 when PAT01 was told about them, and he was in Route 3 moving to Route 4. Route 3 runs 1400 feet to below 300 feet.  Route 4 starts at 1,000 feet or below, and drops to 200 feet or below. Route 3 runs from the Beltway (Interstate 495/95), running at or below 1400 except between Woods Corner and Greenbelt which is at or below 1000. From From Woods Corner to Wilson Bridge at or below 800, crossing the Potomac at or below 300 feet, south of Wilson Bridge. 

Route 4 requires at or below 1000 at Fort Washington, 600 feet abeam of Broad Creek Inlet, arriving at 300 feet over Wilson Bridge, and 200 feet or below north of Wilson Bridge.

[Zaphod58]

The USCG released pictures from the river. 

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

 

[off topic material removed by staff]

As far as this tragic accident goes, it reminds me of the one that crashed here in the 70s. The PSA 727 and the Cessna. Where a misidentification of the aircraft by one of the PSA pilots lead to the jet rear-ending the Cessna. Only in reverse, with the helicopter misindentifying another plane as the CRJ?