Trump says he bombed Iran

[DBCowboy]

What do you think is a higher probability?

That Iran would have nuked us, or we would have a financial crisis because the deficit only increases no matter who's in power?

I think it's not even close, and I think this gamble just helps accelerate the bigger and more probable problem.

You are welcome to your opinion.

It's wrong.

But keep hope alive, right?

You have a higher regard for Islamic fundamentalists that I do.

[BeyondKnowledge]

Who's to say they would have?

That's a scare tactic we've been hearing for decades.

We're bankrupting our country now though, and have been for just as long of a time. Them nuking us was always a what if, but the direction our financial situation is going is not a what if. Interest payments are going to be the number one federal expenditure soon. The average age for first time home buyers is 40 right now. We're the worlds richest country on earth, and yet the bare minimum to a comfortable wealth is beyond reach for most young Americans.

There's plenty of blame to go to the democrats for that. They helped create excess spending and then even voted for Iraq as icing on the cake. They both recklessly spend and go to war. Hell, they didn't even stop the Iran strikes when a war powers resolution act hit the floor. 

It would absolutely suck to start to reconcile our debt and spending right now. But we're not doing it, and we're making things worse. If it would suck right now, what about in 10-20 years? It doesn't matter to the older people who are gung ho about a war with Iran.

And Trump has said we've won many times now. He even told the UK not to worry about their aircraft carrier because he doesn't want someone joining in after we've won. Now he's out there telling NATO they better help with the strait. That's a defensive pact. He even said he expects China to help. Doesn't look like everything was a big plan or under control to me.

No one at no time has ever truly been in control. Everyone just makes it up as they go along. Some by the rules. Some don't care about the rules.

You seem to ignore the fact that 47 years ago, Iran was taken over by a bunch of religious fanitics that wanted to kill everyone not worshiping as they do. The USA was included by name in that kill list.

They have always wanted to have a nuclear bomb to make themselves more powerful. What part of that do you not understand? 

Did they have the atomic material? I don't know. Did they say they wanted to use one if they did? Yes they did. Did they open peace negotiations by saying they had the material? That is the story going around from many sources.

When someone holds a bat and says they are going to beat you with it, do you do anything about it or just stand there?

[CriticalStinker]

You are welcome to your opinion.

It's wrong.

But keep hope alive, right?

You have a higher regard for Islamic fundamentalists that I do.

I don't think I do. I've seen what Islamic extremism can do in my lifetime. 

But I'm thinking triage, which one is more likely? The economic one is a certainty if we don't start to correct, and we're not even trying.

[CriticalStinker]

No one at no time has ever truly been in control. Everyone just makes it up as they go along. Some by the rules. Some don't care about the rules.

You seem to ignore the fact that 47 years ago, Iran was taken over by a bunch of religious fanitics that wanted to kill everyone not worshiping as they do. The USA was included by name in that kill list.

They have always wanted to have a nuclear bomb to make themselves more powerful. What part of that do you not understand? 

Did they have the atomic material? I don't know. Did they say they wanted to use one if they did? Yes they did. Did they open peace negotiations by saying they had the material? That is the story going around from many sources.

When someone holds a bat and says they are going to beat you with it, do you do anything about it or just stand there.

Am I ignoring the revolution 47 years ago, or is it possible I remember the history before that too? That was one of the CIA's first regime changes that the Islamic revolution overthrew.

They were pretty western even before we did that too. Remember, they're Persian not Arab. 

That's cause and effect IMO. So if part of this is because of our actions back then, than we need to consider the same can happen in the future from our actions now. Those people are going to exist, and at some point we need to normalize relations... I don't think sending them to the stone age is going to do that.

I think their people had some momentum to change the regime, and unfortunately an external threat very well maybe unifying them behind the same regime.

I also think it's clear the regime isn't going to fall now. I think it's also clear if they do have the 60% enriched uranium, it's somewhere bunker busters won't get to. So that means it would have to be boots on the ground to secure the location, get the backfilled soil out of the way, go in and extract it. So what do we do now? If there was vindication to their extremist regime to the public that the western powers were going to threaten their existence, here it is. If there was reason for them to finish building a bomb, here it is.

If they really wanted one before this, they'd have it. the technology is older than our president. Israel made nukes over half a century ago while they were a brand new country.

[DBCowboy]

I don't think I do. I've seen what Islamic extremism can do in my lifetime. 

But I'm thinking triage, which one is more likely? The economic one is a certainty if we don't start to correct, and we're not even trying.

Unless you know everything about the Fed and the economics as are concerned, then I will doubt you opinion.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[CriticalStinker]

Unless you know everything about the Fed and the economics as are concerned, then I will doubt you opinion.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Is interests payments being the number one federal expenditure a bad thing? I don't think you need to be an economist to answer that. We are on the path for that to be the case in just a few years.

Also, Trump and his base have said that Biden had the worst economy ever. Well, GDP is down since then, deficit is up, new jobs are down, the US dollar is down... So by their own metrics, this might be the worst economy ever right now.

[EXETER]

So who actually cares about Iran?

Unless you're Iranian and a jew-hater, you really don't care.

This is because Trump initiated it.

Trump could cure cancer and people would post and protest and be for cancer.

So is this just anti-American posts or anti-freedom posts, or just jew haters going out into the open?

You lost me at "Trump could cure cancer.....".

Personally, I am neither anti-American, anti-freedom, nor a Jew hater.  And you're right that I, for one, am opposed to this war because Trump initiated it. And that's because I think Donald Trump initiated it for the wrong motives and is not going to be able to bring it to a successful conclusion.  

Trump did not jump into this war to help America, to spread freedom to oppressed Iranians, or primarily to help Israel (although the tonnage of bombs he has expended does probably have the side effect of helping to achieve Israel's military objectives). But he has tried to wrap those noble sounding motives around himself to cover his true motive, which is simply to seize control of Iran's large petroleum reserves (similar to the way he did in Venezuela) and make a ton of money for himself in the process.  No noble, altruistic making-the-world-a-better place going on here. Just kick in the door, kill the leader, and grab the oil.  That's it. Don't try to equate Trump's actions here with "curing cancer".  

I'm opposed to this war because in the first place, it is going to be an order of magnitude more complex than the Venezuela episode, and I don't think Trump is even remotely close to being intellectually up to the job of managing something like this successfully.  He's already made 2 or 3 bonehead mistakes in the execution so far that would have easily been predicted and avoided by someone who had the intellectual horsepower to think things through analytically.  So I fully expect him to fail at his objective but create a huge amount of pain, suffering, and loss on a global scale in the process.  And the US will have to eat it's share of that shit sandwich.

Secondly, I don't think his objective--even if achieved--is actually in the national interest, for reasons that would probably take another long essay to explain.  

It's a different story for Israel.  Israel is and should be legitimately concerned about their survival in the face of an intensely hostile Iran that is beavering away at developing nuclear bombs and the ballistic missiles that can carry them.  For Israel, this is existential because Israel has been described as a one-bomb country.  The US could reluctantly live with Iran having a small number of nuclear weapons the same way we ended up doing so with North Korea.  Israel doesn't want to take that chance and I don't blame them.

[DBCowboy]

Is interests payments being the number one federal expenditure a bad thing? I don't think you need to be an economist to answer that. We are on the path for that to be the case in just a few years.

Also, Trump and his base have said that Biden had the worst economy ever. Well, GDP is down since then, deficit is up, new jobs are down, the US dollar is down... So by their own metrics, this might be the worst economy ever right now.

Well golly, I wouldn't vote for Trump again, and maybe you can vote for that nation-wide millionaire tax, that'll only "happen once".

Did you know that our income tax started as a "millionaire tax" "just once".

Then they went after us.

But keep believing their trope.

It's cute.

[CriticalStinker]

Well golly, I wouldn't vote for Trump again, and maybe you can vote for that nation-wide millionaire tax, that'll only "happen once".

Did you know that our income tax started as a "millionaire tax" "just once".

Then they went after us.

But keep believing their trope.

It's cute.

Just so you know, it's possible in a country of 350m~ people for someone to have views outside of the two parties.

If you had read my statement just a page or two back I think it would be clear how I feel about them.

There's plenty of blame to go to the democrats for that. They helped create excess spending and then even voted for Iraq as icing on the cake. They both recklessly spend and go to war. Hell, they didn't even stop the Iran strikes when a war powers resolution act hit the floor. 

They're just as guilty. They aren't salvation, the difference is between you and I that one of us thinks one side is better. But I believe they're both trash.

[cherokeetroy]

Iran has been threatening the US for nearly 50 years, which means this isn't new
It's continues, ongoing hostility spanning decades

During the ongoing hostility, Trump condemned Obama over potentially starting conflict with Iran, calling him a poor negotiator 

https://x.com/amconmag/status/2029987468347387931?s=20


Also, During the ongoing hostility, Trump boasted about being the Peace President, promising no new wars, no disruption 

https://x.com/mmpadellan/status/20073754...77536?s=20

MAGA cheered


Obviously, there was a long span of time when people were very willing to tolerate living under Iran's threats

That includes Trump