Trump says he bombed Iran

[andy06shake]

Tanks are still one of the most powerful 'systems' on the battlefield but facing just a handful of drones has proven they're pretty useless. The Ukrainians showed this in urban conflicts during Russia's invasion which lead to the stalemate.

I imagine if America decided the Iran conflict needed boots on the ground tomorrow, the conflict would get extremely messy,  Afghanistan showed that a less equipped military using guerrilla tactics with basic IEDs and very simple drones was almost a match for a far superior force.  

The drone and IED tech has moved on and I imagine would cause massive issues for a regular army these days in an urban setting.

The main dilemma I see is that tanks simply are not replaceable on the battlefield in the manner men and other equipment are.

Or as versatile, for that matter. 

Then there is the fact that they require heavy logistics and support. 

Where Iran is concerned, I can't see Tanks helping much in any US ground invasion.

The terrain is mountainous and hard to navigate, which will indeed make ambushes easy and commonplace. 

When they go in.

They will likely rely more on air power and special forces.

[putnam6]

Kurokage Wrote:
Even though you posted this in jest, you only have to look to the conflict in Ukraine for this to be partly true. Tanks have been shown to be pretty useless in this era of drone conflict.

Used properly with infantry support and drones.

Tanks remain one of the most powerful tools on the battlefield.

The problem is that combined arms is beyond the Russians.

Which makes their tanks easy targets for ambushes with RPGs, Javlins, NLAWs, and drones.

And they are sitting targets in an urban theatre of war.

They still have their place, but they are costly and not exactly easily replaceable.

Battlefield tactics Mr. Ryan...

This exchange made me check to see how the older M-1 Abrams has done in Ukraine?

American tanks in Ukraine have shown strengths in firepower, mobility, and crew protection but suffered high losses to evolving threats like drones. Their performance reveals more about the war's character than a fundamental obsolescence of the platform—though it has accelerated global rethinking of armored warfare doctrine. Data relies on open-source visuals and reporting, which may undercount total losses or kills.

[Kurokage]

The main dilemma I see is that Tanks simply are not replaceable on the battlefield in the manner men and other equipment are.

Or as versatile, for that matter. 

Then there is the fact that they require heavy logistics and support. 

Where Iran is concerned, I can't see Tanks helping much in any US ground invasion.

The terrain is mountainous and hard to navigate, which will indeed make ambushes easy and commonplace. 

When they go in.

They will likely rely more on air power and special forces.

I think even though battlefields have always been 'evolving' with the use of technology, now with automatous drone warfare I see a massive change and the slow forward advance of a front being taken back to almost WW1. With just a handful of drones (air, sea or land) a supply line and large support infrastructure have become easy targets. 

I see Kharg Island being the first target of a ground force before any movement onto Iran itself. If Iran can bog down troop movement like the Afghans did with simple maiming tactics, I think many western countries including America wouldn't support a drawn out battle. Many don't have the stomach for large numbers of deaths

[Kurokage]

Kurokage Wrote:
Even though you posted this in jest, you only have to look to the conflict in Ukraine for this to be partly true. Tanks have been shown to be pretty useless in this era of drone conflict.


Battlefield tactics Mr. Ryan...

This exchange made me check to see how the older M-1 Abrams has done in Ukraine?

There's lots of info out there on Ukraine's resistance and drone tactics compared to Russian larger forces and military tech. 

Massive deaths and destruction of Russia's best military tech have shown simpler and cheaper drones have caused Russia huge problems.

If Iran used Ukraine's tactics and Russian and Chinese supplies (it is known that both have indeed helped Iran), it could drag out a 'simple' war and turn it into a quagmire.

[andy06shake]

I think even though battlefields have always been 'evolving' with the use of technology, now with automatous drone warfare I see a massive change and the slow forward advance of a front being taken back to almost WW1. With just a handful of drones (air, sea or land) a supply line and large support infrastructure have become easy targets. 

I see Kharg Island being the first target of a ground force before any movement onto Iran itself. If Iran can bog down troop movement like the Afghans did with simple maiming tactics, I think many western countries including America wouldn't support a drawn out battle.

They are apt to fill the place full of MANPADs and religious fundamentalist maniacs.

No real doubt they will be able to take and hold the island, but at what cost?

And keeping in mind they will still be exposed to missile, drone, and naval threats from the mainland.

Occupying the island may well be a mug's game...

Let's just hope it doesn't turn into something reminiscent of the Battle of "Khe Sanh" or "Dak To."

[putnam6]

I think even though battlefields have always been 'evolving' with the use of technology, now with automatous drone warfare I see a massive change and the slow forward advance of a front being taken back to almost WW1. With just a handful of drones (air, sea or land) a supply line and large support infrastructure have become easy targets. 

I see Kharg Island being the first target of a ground force before any movement onto Iran itself. If Iran can bog down troop movement like the Afghans did with simple maiming tactics, I think many western countries including America wouldn't support a drawn out battle. Many don't have the stomach for large numbers of deaths

Watching these smallish drones fly to a location, land, and watch autonomously for targets to pass, and then attack them, is wild as hell. Their only limit is payload.

Did you see that Chinese drone that can fly, land on the water, submerge, move around, exit the water, and fly off

[Kurokage]

They are apt to fill the place full of MANPADs and religious fundamentalist maniacs.

No real doubt they will be able to take and hold the island, but at what cost?

And keeping in mind they will still be exposed to missile, drone, and naval threats from the mainland.

Occupying the island may well be a mug's game...

I imagine China is watching this with bated breath and taking notes for if and when they decided to invade Taiwan. I imagine what ever tactics American Troops use to take the island, China will be watching very closely and also learning from any mistakes made.

I think boots on the ground in Iran can only end badly, unless a massive 'carpet bombing' campaign destroys huge swaths of Iranian coastline.

[Kurokage]

Watching these smallish drones fly to a location, land, and watch autonomously for targets to pass, and then attack them, is wild as hell. Their only limit is payload.

Did you see that Chinese drone that can fly, land on the water, submerge, move around, exit the water, and fly off

You would only need a small 'platoon' of those to cause problems, but the more worrying displays are the giant swarms flying autonomously in unison!

https://mymodernmet.com/most-drones-flyi...ld-record/

Mesmerizing Fleet of 8,100 Drones Breaks World Record for Most Drones Flown at the Same Time.
 
Fireworks are thought to have originated in China around 2,000 years ago, and today, the country leads the way in a new kind of light show. On September 5 in Shenzhen, China, a new Guinness World Record was set for the largest number of drones flying simultaneously, with an impressive fleet of 8,100 drones taking to the sky.
The breathtaking 18-minute drone show dazzled spectators at the Shenzhen University Sports Center with intricate light formations, including swirling patterns, hearts, globes, and more. The level of detail, creativity, and synchronization was incredible, and you can only imagine how much planning went into pulling it all off.
What’s even more impressive is that the show on September 5 was actually Shenzhen’s second world record in two days. Just the night before, on September 4, the organizers set another record for creating the largest light image using 7,998 drones.
Both shows were created by HighGreat, a company that specializes in three-dimensional drone formation performances. With a fleet of over 60,000 drones, the team has created thousands of drone performances in more than 300 cities around the world.
Check out clips from both shows below and find out more about HighGreat’s drone shows on their website.

Imagine facing a fleet of 10,000 drones?

[andy06shake]

I imagine China is watching this with bated breath and taking notes for if and when they decided to invade Taiwan. I imagine what ever tactics American Troops use to take the island, China will be watching very closely and also learning from any mistakes made.

I think boots on the ground in Iran can only end badly, unless a massive 'carpet bombing' campaign destroys huge swaths of Iranian coastline.

Trump sees an opportunity to project power in the region.

But that island is a big siege-like trap if ever there was one.

Some could argue they are about to be led down the garden path...

[putnam6]

There's lots of info out there on Ukraine's resistance and drone tactics to Russian larger forces and military tech. 

Massive deaths and destruction of Russia's best military tech have shown simpler and cheaper drones have caused Russia huge problems.

If Iran used Ukraine's tactics and Russian and Chinese supplies (it is known that both have indeed helped Iran), it could drag out a 'simple' war and turn it into a quagmire.

Ive seen rumors of a Black Hawk helicopter with some kind of jamming equipment, it can supposedly knock multiple drones down at range.

Im waiting for the Chinese drone carrier, mother/airship dropping air, land, and sea drones