Trump is in talks with Russia to end the war

[putnam6]

True, and I must commend Trump for lighting a fire under them. Imagine that this war would never have started with the balance of power extended to those countries surrounding Iran, which Putin wants to 'free'.

Yeah and it would have never started with Trump as President is abundantly clear however

it seems Macron still needs some hand-holding and no Ukraine is not part of our manifest destiny. 

If Obama thinks Russia is just a gas station doesn't that make Ukraine, a rare earth minerals store? 

Hope you feel better...flu bug has been going around here big time.


Clash Report

@clashreport

Macron: I want Americans to understand that disengaging from Ukraine is not in their interest. Abandoning Ukraine without security guarantees would weaken deterrence against Russia, China, and others. America’s manifest destiny is to be on the side of the Ukrainians—I have no doubt about that.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

[Image: https://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/i...cfd9be.gif]

What was it the previous four years? That was apex fear mongeging, wasn't it? Our memory is not that short.

It was four years of the once fringe NWO boogeyman conspiracy going mainstream through meme and anger. It was a lot of a lot of normalized hyperbole of what was already nonsense. In its wackiest you had Satanic pedo celebrities abducting children for brain chemicals and slavery.

I think Oprah's still too busy paying off paparazzi to not publicize pictures of her and her not wife. Just troll with precision or not at all.

They didn't even get the most likely Hollywood religion right.

But there are pages and pages of the counter neurosis. But it wasn't considered neurosis, it was somehow considered an awakening. On point and enlightened. Yet it is a really paranoid awakening.

And they both share a commonality. An oppressor of clandestine and deceptive purposes. They will cancel each-other out eventually, but getting there is really freaking annoying.

But I read the European comments, the UK ones, and I think a majority may live in a subjective media bubble that is unable to recognize things from the outside perspective. Or are so programed to view that outside perspective as invalid.

I think you can do math with this mirror effect.

Question - Chat GPT, Write a math equation that incorporates a statistical balance achieved surrounding the New World Order. Where the conservative fear of liberals letting it taking over is balanced by the liberal fear of conservative trying to destroy it.

Creating a mathematical equation that metaphorically represents the balance of fears between conservatives and liberals regarding a concept like the New World Order can be an interesting thought experiment. Let's use variables to represent each group's fear and the overall balance.

Let:
- \( C \) = the fear of conservatives that liberals will let the New World Order take over
- \( L \) = the fear of liberals that conservatives will attempt to destroy the New World Order
- \( B \) = a balanced state of fear

We can express the balance mathematically as:

\[ B = C + L \]

In a more nuanced version, we can consider that each group's fear also influences the other’s perspective. Therefore, we may adjust the equation to show that the fears are not equal but rather are weighted or dependent on each group's influence:

\[ B = kC + mL \]

Where \( k \) and \( m \) are coefficients representing the weight or intensity of each group's fear.

For a balanced perspective, one could set \( B \) at a stable point, such as zero (indicating a stable balance), leading to:

\[ 0 = kC + mL \]

This signifies that the fear from both sides is equal and opposite, achieving a state of equilibrium regarding their concerns over the New World Order.

This equation can serve to illustrate the conceptual balance between the two competing fears in socio-political discourse.

And I can't make that apply to the topic. Forget what thread I was posting this in.

[theshadowknows]

Zelensky clearly stated before the meeting that he wouldn't sign a deal if the security guarantees weren't offered:

"I wanted to have a sentence on security guarantees for Ukraine, and it's important that it's there," the Ukrainian leader explained.

Asked by the BBC if he would be prepared to walk away from the agreement if Trump did not offer the guarantees he wanted, Zelensky said: "I want to find a Nato path or something similar.
 
"If we don't get security guarantees, we won't have a ceasefire, nothing will work, nothing."
 
Despite this, the published agreement says the US supports "Ukraine's efforts to obtain security guarantees to build lasting peace".
 
He said Ukraine would not sign the deal until Zelensky and Trump "agree on security guarantees" and decide on how to "tie this preliminary agreement" to a US security guarantee.

What we know about US-Ukraine minerals deal

From how that reads, it was a preliminary agreement that Zelensky hoped to further negotiate. Certainly, you're right it shouldn't be done in front of the cameras but it was Trump who was the host, not Zelensky, and it was he who invited journalists. He even said during that embarrassing conversation that it was a great TV show.

Now, whatever one might think of Zelensky's NATO aspirations, I just can't help thinking that the level of American diplomacy has now reached such a level of amateurship that even Zakharova wouldn't stoop down to while being drunk. And Trump and Vance did it all while being sober.

If someone has made a fool of himself, it was Trump. He clearly lost his temper and began flinging poop. If some Pentecostals hoped till now that Darwin was wrong, then now, after watching the US president's performance, throw their hands up in the air.

I agree. He threw a tantrum because he couldn't strong arm the situation. But it was still a show from the jump. Normally, there'd be a photo-op, and then the room would be cleared to discuss the situation privately, but that was a show for the American people. Trump needs to justify his betrayal of Ukraine to his supporters. It dumbfounds me that the same people that were most concerned about the Red Scare during the Cold War are the same people now welcoming Russia into our Executive Branch with open arms. 

At least two Russian defectors have claimed that Trump was cultivated as a KGB/FSB asset for decades. Whistleblower Reality Winner leaked Top Secret NSA documents proving that Russian military intelligence hacked into U.S. voting software and attempted to access voter registration systems in 2016. Something Trump and his allies continue to deny. Roger Stone collaborated with Russian hackers and WikiLeaks to smear Hillary Clinton, once again conspiring with a foreign power to manipulate an election.
 
Not to mention Trump's relationship with Felix Sater, who has deep ties to both Russian intelligence and the Russian Mafia. Sater played a key role in the Trump Organization’s efforts to build Trump Tower Moscow, even offering Putin a penthouse as part of the deal. He's a man that's so notorious that he possessed Osama bin Laden’s satellite phone number that led to his capture. Despite all this, Trump and his supporters dismiss concerns about Russian meddling as a hoax, ignoring a mountain of evidence to the contrary.

I'd also like to add that some of us Pentecostals still believe in evolution. I'm pro-choice too. I don't fit in anywhere. 

[putnam6]

What was it the previous four years? That was apex fear mongeging, wasn't it? Our memory is not that short.

It was four years of the once fringe NWO boogeyman conspiracy going mainstream through meme and anger. It was a lot of a lot of normalized hyperbole of what was already nonsense. In its wackiest you had Satanic pedo celebrities abducting children for brain chemicals and slavery.

I think Oprah's still too busy paying off paparazzi to not publicize pictures of her and her not wife. Just troll with precision or not at all.

They didn't even get the most likely Hollywood religion right.

But there are pages and pages of the counter neurosis. But it wasn't considered neurosis, it was somehow considered an awakening. On point and enlightened. Yet it is a really paranoid awakening.

And they both share a commonality. An oppressor of clandestine and deceptive purposes. They will cancel each-other out eventually, but getting there is really freaking annoying.

But I read the European comments, the UK ones, and I think a majority may live in a subjective media bubble that is unable to recognize things from the outside perspective. Or are so programed to view that outside perspective as invalid.

I think you can do math with this mirror effect.

Question - Chat GPT, Write a math equation that incorporates a statistical balance achieved surrounding the New World Order. Where the conservative fear of liberals letting it taking over is balanced by the liberal fear of conservative trying to destroy it.


And I can't make that apply to the topic. Forget what thread I was posting this in.

I never meant to imply you were alone in your neurosis, I fully realize most people have our neurotic moments. Mine are usually about different stuff lol but you arent alone it's all over X.com too. 

FWIW my use of the fear-mongering gif debuted a while ago on ATS we just ran in different circles. 

Good video at the link I agree with Shellenberger here... also FWIW not exactly a convert to Geoge and Klaus ruling the world,  starting every fire at chicken farms the last 7-8 years, even if they do seem to finance a shitload of US-related programs. Remember the cattle dying of the heat in Kansas I was told that was George and Klaus convincing Kansas ranchers to let thier cattle die, it was all ludicrous as hell IMHO. 

 

 [Image: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/185...normal.jpg]
Michael Shellenberger

[Image: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/164...bigger.jpg]

Healthy relationships depend on mutual respect. Ukraine and Europe don't respect us; they look down on us. America never had any obligation to protect Ukraine. And now we're asking why we should continue to spend our money, and put our lives on the line, to protect Europe.

[putnam6]

He makes some good points
Victor Davis Hanson reposted

The Daily Signal

@DailySignal
@VDHanson
: Trump’s Plan for ‘Lasting Peace’ in Ukraine, Russia Victor Davis Hanson’s advice for Volodymyr Zelenskyy following yesterday’s public spat in the Oval Office with President Donald Trump and Vice President JD Vance: Wear a suit, act polite, don’t interrupt, and sign the only deal, the mineral agreement, that will ensure “lasting peace” with Russia. “There's only one real issue separating Russia now from Ukraine and the United States' participation, and that is how far can you push Putin back? “Donald Trump himself said he wanted to push Putin as far back as possible. That's why this mineral agreement was so innovative. “Because most of the key deposits are along this disputed area. If you can come up with a DMZ close to, or near, where Putin started the war, and he did start the war, and have concessions where Europeans and Americans come in and have personnel on the ground and it's a prosperous, mutually advantaged concession, then you're going to have the beginning of a lasting peace. “Putin will not go in there and kill Americans or disrupt that.”

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

FWIW my use of the fear-mongering gif debuted a while ago on ATS we just ran in different circles. 

Good video at the link I agree with Shellenberger here... also FWIW not exactly a convert to Geoge and Klaus ruling the world,  starting every fire at chicken farms the last 7-8 years, even if they do seem to finance a shitload of US-related programs. Remember the cattle dying of the heat in Kansas I was told that was George and Klaus convincing Kansas ranchers to let thier cattle die, it was all ludicrous as hell IMHO. 

[Image: https://media0.giphy.com/media/RUSu65EOMX2PS/giphy.gif] 

I'm really trying to get the rationale. And I'm really trying to hope for the best because I have no other choice. I am trying to temper the more "ludicrous" speculation, but then TSK had to go and say this...

At least two Russian defectors have claimed that Trump was cultivated as a KGB/FSB asset for decades. Whistleblower Reality Winner leaked Top Secret NSA documents proving that Russian military intelligence hacked into U.S. voting software and attempted to access voter registration systems in 2016. Something Trump and his allies continue to deny. Roger Stone collaborated with Russian hackers and WikiLeaks to smear Hillary Clinton, once again conspiring with a foreign power to manipulate an election.

Because that's mostly how I read it. Only I add in a KGB payroll for conservative American media influence. To really drive in all those DARVO devices that still get used to turn Zelenskyy into a dictator.

I agree with Zelenskyy, Trump and his most vocal cult of personality largely live in a Russian misinformation universe.

He (and his media-o-support) are not gonna DARVO that one on me. Zelenskyy will never be the aggressor. Never be deserving of the treatment he's getting and "Newscum" like rhetorical bully tactics. I dont care what the posturing ultimately is. There will never be a nuance that persuades me to reconsider.

Biden aided the country getting unfairly invaded for anti-NATO BS. I miss when it was Biden sternly trying to warn Putin about Article V.

My mind is closed to the pushed mental gymnastics required to spin that premise all to hell, against NATO (for whatever agenda promoted tax wasting excuse they try), and for Putin.

I'm truly sorry I was supporting people's tax dollars going to stopping Russia, but like Israel or even Taiwan, I felt those aid packages were strategic against our true adversaries. China, Russia, and militant Islam. It used to be our noble privilege to help prevent dictatorships like Russia from invading others like Ukraine without real provocation.

There were way blurrier lines in 2014. It was Ukraine fighting Russia backed Ukrainian separatists. This time was easier to jump in. Crimea isn't exactly Kyiv That wasn't anywhere near the case in 2022.

I really don't want to live in his (Putin's) illusory world on this.

You can call it hyperbole, me losing touch, but I feel (at the core of what drives my actions) it's bowing down to a malevolent entity/energy/will that seeks to use me for my gullibility and give me a hammer. He will tell me where the nails are and when to swing. I'm supposed to hit the Zelenskyy nail now.

I don't like this change in the house of (butter)flies. I miss Dopey Joe trying to look threatening.

To paraphrase the Nickleback of Europe, I need to rip off these wings of change... for my love and my soul...

[rickymouse]

I have no clue what is going on over there, so much propaganda and lies in media and Especially Ukraine.  I can understand Putin spreading lies to America, but that is normal.  I personally think that the USA should build up it's weapons now instead of selling them, we have cut our supplies too low now, we need to build them up before selling them to Europe to give to Zelensky to waste in a war that cannot be won.  Escalating this war is not wise, Putin may decide to level Ukraine completely to teach the west a lesson.

I am not fond of Zelensky, he is a war monger too, seems like he is more worried about fighting a war to gain personal prestige than in negotiating a peaceful solution to end the war.  A real lot of his soldiers have already died, we need peace between the countries, not a winner.

[Rigel4]

No words required

[guyfriday]

Well now we know what started all of this.
Dems lead Zelensky, Ukraine off a cliff with pressure to reject mineral deal

Before meeting Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal the president was offering, according to Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.).

The People that met with Zelensky ahead of time need to be brought up on charges now that we know for certain what was going on.

further on in the article:

The earlier meeting with Dems undercuts wild claims that Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance staged an ambush. In fact, it was Zelensky who came with an ulterior motive.
 
The purpose of the meeting was to sign the mineral agreement he and Trump representatives had negotiated. He had twice refused to sign it after promising to, and thanks to Murphy, we now know he had no intention of signing it Friday.
 
By listening to the nakedly partisan advice of Dems instead of dealing forthrightly with the current president, Zelensky betrayed his countrymen and, for now at least, leaves them without the military and diplomatic protection that only America can provide.

While some here had suspected as much, now we know what happened in that earlier meeting from someone that was there. NATO has been wrecked by this incident by the... well I call them Trotskyists a lot, but hopefully you can all see why now.

[Rigel4]

Meanwhile the actual free world think it was an Ambush