Trump is in talks with Russia to end the war

[putnam6]

Vance's approval rating today is about 41%.  His disapproval rating is about 43%.  He's slightly underwater.  No evidence Americans like him "a lot".  Also, today's approval/disapproval ratings don't reflect today's altercation at the White House.  Let's wait a few days and see what happens.

Yay, let's use the same polls that predicted a Harris/Walz victory

Yes let's wait and watch Zelensky's interview on Fox and then we will see, bottom line America isn't going to participate anywhere near the level it has the last 4 years. 

[EXETER]

I think we will be all right

[Image: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gk5K1xPWQAAE...name=large]

Funny you should show that graphic.  Here's an article that shows why your interpretation is false:

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/us-co...024-05-31/

Of that 860B$ Defense budget, the US only spends about 0.567 B$ directly on NATO. That's 0.065% of our defense budget and about 16% of the total NATO budget.  We have many other combatant commands spread all over the world that use up the rest of that budget. The amount we have been spending on Ukraine directly amounts to about 38B$ per year since 2022, or about 0.4% of our defense budget. But it's a shooting war, even though no US combatants are on the front line, so it should cost more.

If you mean to imply that we'll be OK because no foreign power is likely to try to invade or attack the US militarily because of the size of our military you are probably right--at least in the immediate future.  However, Trump is creating almost the perfect conditions for another major land war in Central Europe in the near future, only this time many nations will have nuclear weapons.  Even if you take the position that you are morally neutral about seeing the cradle of Western Civilization destroyed by war, it is delusional to think that that scenario would not be immensely costly to the US in tangible terms.  For one thing, the US has direct economic investment in Europe of about 4 Trillion$. Compared to that number, spending 38B$ to protect that investment is down in the noise. It is not in the national interest of the US to create that kind of catastrophe--there is no way to justify it on an economic cost-benefit analysis. The only way Krasnov's (oops, I meanTrump's) actions make sense is if he is doing this to improve Putin's geopolitical position.

[putnam6]

Funny you should show that graphic.  Here's an article that shows why your interpretation is false:

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/us-co...024-05-31/

Of that 860B$ Defense budget, the US only spends about 0.567 B$ directly on NATO. That's 0.065% of our defense budget and about 16% of the total NATO budget.  We have many other combatant commands spread all over the world that use up the rest of that budget. The amount we have been spending on Ukraine directly amounts to about 38B$ per year since 2022, or about 0.4% of our defense budget. But it's a shooting war, even though no US combatants are on the front line, so it should cost more.

If you mean to imply that we'll be OK because no foreign power is likely to try to invade or attack the US militarily because of the size of our military you are probably right--at least in the immediate future.  However, Trump is creating almost the perfect conditions for another major land war in Central Europe in the near future, only this time many nations will have nuclear weapons.  Even if you take the position that you are morally neutral about seeing the cradle of Western Civilization destroyed by war, it is delusional to think that that scenario would not be immensely costly to the US in tangible terms.  For one thing, the US has direct economic investment in Europe of about 4 Trillion$. Compared to that number, spending 38B$ to protect that investment is down in the noise. It is not in the national interest of the US to create that kind of catastrophe--there is no way to justify it on an economic cost-benefit analysis. The only way Krasnov's (oops, I meanTrump's) actions make sense is if he is doing this to improve Putin's geopolitical position.

Of course, I mean the US will be fine.

I have high confidence that America will honor Article 5 until when and if new agreements can be made.

No matter how fearful you are regarding the collapse of the cradle of Western civilization

Russia is practically begging to get out of the war, Ive said all along th UK France Poland and Germany alone should be able to hang with Russia and if they aren't they should be and needed this wake-up call.

[putnam6]

Sounds as if Ukraine is going to go all out...

[Image: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/187...bigger.jpg]
Reuters

@Reuters
·
15m


Russian air defences down 17 drones in six Russian regions http://reut.rs/3XpI31v

and so is Russia...

Reuters

@Reuters
·
7m


Russian drone strike hits medical facility, other targets in Kharkiv, mayor says http://reut.rs/41GnlMf

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

Well I see the mineral deal failed miserably..

We are such freaking bullies. It was all nice until they called Zelenskyy out for hatred of Putin. They call him a dictator in the media and then berate him for not kissing their asses and daring to hate our new ally Putin.

But I don't really want to get into it. I dont care what the reason is, what context I'm missing. Why he's right again. Why Russia is now the good guy. Why the underdog needs to be euthanized. Keep your mental gymnastics. The version of America I wanted on the world stage is gone. It's not healthy to watch anymore. To watch it's leaders that represent me.

Because if Zelenskyy is now the dictator, and Putin and Trump are the good guys in this equation, I don't think there's anything left to care about.

And I call now out to our new master... obviously. In stranger aeons may his madness reign.

[UltraBudgie]

[context and despair]

aargh arrgh stop none of them are good guys you watched too many hollywood movies life doesn't work that way the only thing that's changed is what and how they are lying about by not lying at all and stop trying to fight its a trap

but yeah your right about the bully thing

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

No, I'm sorry. If there's EVER going to be a real life application of a Hollywood antagonist/protagonist, it's this. Russia is the villain to Ukraine's scappy hero. They have applied archetypes from an objective worldview.

And I refuse to go for the mean opposing team that has matching fancy bags and acts better than the determined hero team. They have to overcome odds, and a demoralizing loss, bring in a ringer, and then defeat the mean villain team, as the coach is breaking the clipboard.

And then they all listen to Queen..

[putnam6]

Well I see the mineral deal failed miserably..

We are such freaking bullies. It was all nice until they called Zelenskyy out for hatred of Putin. They actually tried to shame him for being blinded by hatred of Putin. They call him a dictator in the media and then berate him for not kissing their asses and daring to hate our new ally Putin.

But I don't really want to get into it. I dont care what the reason is, what context I'm missing. Why Russia is now the good guy. My America to the world is gone. It's not healthy to watch anymore. To watch it's leaders that represent me.

Because if Zelenskyy is now the dictator, and Putin and Trump are the good guys in this equation, I don't think there's anything left to care about.

And I call now out to our new master... obviously. In stranger aeons may his madness reign.

[Video: https://youtu.be/XxScTbIUvoA?si=Q9N4OdBP5DM7qeKh]

Yeah, whoever the leaders are of your country, are no reflection on you individually. How you act and treat others is all that matters. Don't let anybody even have access to your buttons, especially politicians and persons you don't even know personally. Go try some new buds at the dispensary or a couple of shots of tequila and watch a basketball game.

What's funny is I was watching it hoping the egos in the room would choose the right to remain silent, all 3 Trump, JD, or Zelensky. But none of them had the ability. All he had to do was nod his head sign the deal and have lunch, instead, he began discussing specifics he had probably touched on in private. If you go watch the 40 minutes Zelensky had some peculiar mannerisms and was a little twitchy FWIW

There's a guy on X.com that I started to listen to during the Canadian truck thing he nails this by saying don't get caught up in the theatrics of it all. He is betting we have a peace deal in a month. In the big scheme thats all that matters getting a fair peace deal, rumors were Putin wasn't happy with the mineral deal it might have scuttled a peace deal anyway. That is my fox and sour grapes answer... hell we talked about the Vietnam War peace deal for 3 years before it finally happened

I'd suggest having a longer timeline concerning progress with peace talks...we are in unchartered territory let's see how it reverberates THROUGHOUT THE WORLD. 

Ive already seen one EU stand up and suggest they need a new leader of the free world, after today lots of Americans are saying have at it, tiger.  We have some domestic as well as other international concerns. 

 
[Image: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/182...bigger.jpg]
Holden Culotta

@Holden_Culotta

=whiteIn light of the Trump-Zelenskyy spat … President Washington was crystal clear about America’s ideal foreign policy in his farewell speech. President Trump is living up to his ideal by negotiating peace. Washington, 1796: “The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible.” “Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none, or a very remote, relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns.” “Therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships and enmities.” “It is our true policy to steer clear or permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world.” “Taking care always to keep ourselves by suitable establishments on a respectable defensive posture, we may safely trust to temporary alliances for extraordinary emergencies.” “Harmony, liberal intercourse with all nations, are recommended by policy, humanity, and interest. But even our commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand.”

George was happening dude who knew the game even back then... i would have voted for him

[sahgwa]

Yeah, whoever the leaders are of your country, are no reflection on you individually. How you act and treat others is all that matters. Don't let anybody even have access to your buttons, especially politicians and persons you don't even know personally. Go try some new buds at the dispensary or a couple of shots of tequila and watch a basketball game.

What's funny is I was watching it hoping the egos in the room would choose the right to remain silent, all 3 Trump, JD, or Zelensky. But none of them had the ability. All he had to do was nod his head sign the deal and have lunch, instead, he began discussing specifics he had probably touched on in private. If you go watch the 40 minutes Zelensky had some peculiar mannerisms and was a little twitchy FWIW

There's a guy on X.com that I started to listen to during the Canadian truck thing he nails this by saying don't get caught up in the theatrics of it all. He is betting we have a peace deal in a month. In the big scheme thats all that matters getting a fair peace deal, rumors were Putin wasn't happy with the mineral deal it might have scuttled a peace deal anyway. That is my fox and sour grapes answer... hell we talked about the Vietnam War peace deal for 3 years before it finally happened

I'd suggest having a longer timeline concerning progress with peace talks...we are in unchartered territory let's see how it reverberates THROUGHOUT THE WORLD. 

Ive already seen one EU stand up and suggest they need a new leader of the free world, after today lots of Americans are saying have at it, tiger.  We have some domestic as well as other international concerns. 
=whiteIn light of the Trump-Zelenskyy spat … President Washington was crystal clear about America’s ideal foreign policy in his farewell speech. President Trump is living up to his ideal by negotiating peace. Washington, 1796: “The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible.” “Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none, or a very remote, relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns.” “Therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships and enmities.” “It is our true policy to steer clear or permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world.” “Taking care always to keep ourselves by suitable establishments on a respectable defensive posture, we may safely trust to temporary alliances for extraordinary emergencies.” “Harmony, liberal intercourse with all nations, are recommended by policy, humanity, and interest. But even our commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand.”

George was happening dude who knew the game even back then... i would have voted for him

[Image: https://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/i...940e32.png]

I read a lot of Castaneda and this girl instead of stepping outside of herself and realising she is Trump because we are all each other is too caught up with being in love with herself and her own self importance.
To make it even simpler, her own sadness

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

Yeah, whoever the leaders are of your country, are no reflection on you individually. How you act and treat others is all that matters. Don't let anybody even have access to your buttons, especially politicians and persons you don't even know personally. Go try some new buds at the dispensary or a couple of shots of tequila and watch a basketball game.

It's not as bad as thread contributions would have it appear. It's not in dire need of coping devices and doesn't live in as much madness as it lets on. I'll try to keep the more hyperbolic stuff to the hyperbole thread. The coping devices sound great though.

Would it be in error to assume you didn't feel some degree of shame when Biden mummbled through 4 years of advisor-suggested PR decisions? You didn't facepalm or shudder a little and think, "Wow, he represents our democratic decision to the world."

Just reverse that.

What's madness to me most is the cult-like reflex to auto-absolve his behavior no matter how unbecoming he's actually being. Its like behind the belligerence is always a genius negotiation. Just trust it!

It's a hell of a show, but it's really depressing to read about. It's too sad to be funny now. It used to be kinda funny the first time. Now it's just somewhat frightening - in the same way Newsom and Pelosi are frightening for heartland conservatism.

It just comes off like he flew Zelenskyy here to blackmail him for his metals, which was screwed up enough, instead he provokes a confrontation to further state our new found change of heart. That's my synopsis anyway.

I can't adjust to the Trump 2.0 style of diplomacy. I am waiting for Trump to just start pistol whipping other leaders at this point.