Trump Announces Alaska Summit with Putin

[RickyD]

Anyway, the conclusion in your Grok quote doesn't justify what you've been ranting about all evening.

Carry on.

I think if you read the paper I linked in my last post you might have a bit different understanding of how this all happened. It has all the hallmarks of how the west...especially the US runs coups and regime change. 

I would expect we would do the same in a similar situation if Russia tried to do that in say mexico...Iean we have gone to covert war and regime change in ever South American country Russia got in with all through the cold war. Its one reason we have such shit relations down there...they remember. And we backed our favored dictators to rule in a lot of cases...since everyone is so stuck on Putin being a dictator. If you are going to cheer for a side at least be honest what you're cheering for...

Edit: Here is a fun not much talked about excerpt from this paper...keep in mind this is a scholarly paper not the garbage the media writes.

Two leaders of the far-right Svoboda party stated in their separate interviews that a Western government representative told them and other Maidan leaders a few weeks before the massacre that Western governments would turn on the Yanukovych government after casualties among protesters would reach 100 (Braty, Citation2017, p. 94). Such specific conditionality represented a moral hazard of the state repression backfire because it created rational incentives to “sacrifice” 100 protesters and attributed their killing to the government forces. The protesters killed were called Heavenly Hundred immediately after the massacre. Protesters and people who were not even on the Maidan and died from illnesses or other causes were included to bring the number of victims to 100.
The Western governments Almost immediately after the Maidan massacre blamed the Yanukovych government and his forces for this mass killing, and recognized the new Maidan government. Biden (Citation2017) in his memoir described making a call to Yanukovych “when his snipers were assassinating Ukrainian citizens by the dozens” to tell him to “call off his gunmen and walk away” and that “the disgraced president fled Ukraine the next day.” Yanukovych signed a deal with the Maidan opposition leaders and representatives of France, Germany, and Poland on 21 February. The deal would have kept him in office with significantly reduced power before the early presidential election. It also specified an investigation of the Maidan massacre, with international involvement. However, the deal was immediately violated by the Maidan opposition, which seized the central government offices in Kyiv, and by France, Germany, and Poland, which recognized the new Maidan government.
Moreover, 14 self-admitted members of Maidan sniper groups testified that the massacre of the police or protesters was perpetrated by the Maidan snipers. They include testimonies by seven self-admitted Georgian members of Maidan sniper groups for the Maidan massacre trial and investigation, and their interviews in American, Italian, and Israeli TV documentaries and Macedonian and Russian media. These Georgians stated that they, along with others from Georgia, the Baltic States, and Ukraine, were members of the Maidan sniper groups. They testified that specific Maidan leaders, in particular, from the Fatherland Party and the Maidan Self-Defense, and former Georgian government leaders and commanders gave them orders and firearms to massacre both protesters and the police to stop a peace deal agreed upon by Yanukovych and the Maidan leaders. They said that they then saw on 20 February 2024 Maidan snipers from Georgia, the Baltic States, and the far-right Sector-linked Ukrainian group shooting from the Music Conservatory and the Hotel Ukraina. One of them stated in a US documentary that he shot protesters from Hotel Ukraina.Footnote[sup]29[/sup]

[andy06shake]

Russia is not rolling around snatching men off the streets and forcing them to serve. They offer monetary incentive to join and that attracts many to sign up because they see it as a way out of poverty. They do have conscripts but they are not forcing people onto the front. You go to jail if you don't go fight not like in Ukraine where you just get forced to the front. The difference is obvious...if you try to force someone to fight they won't be effective and will more often than not run at first chance or surrender to get out of the fight.

This is pretty well documented on both sides and if you go looking you can read and watch plenty about it on both sides.

I have yet to see video of Russian MOD dragging people into vans to force into war...I have seen a lot of video of Ukraine doing that.

I haven't seen any documentation or evidence of Russian units abandoning positions against orders or deserting in large numbers...I have seen such from the Ukrainian side. 

It makes sense looking at the lines and daily reports coming from the few objective people reporting on the war. I am happy to look at whatever sources you are using to inform your position though.

Edit: also unrelated but for some reason I can't use the quote button on any mod posts to reply to them. Not sure if bug or intentional but I've not been able to quote any mod on any thread here.

I think you may find Russia absolutely has forced mobilisation.

Since September 2022, there have been tons of reports (BBC, Reuters, Meduza) of men being grabbed off streets, workplaces, even arrested for protests then sent draft papers.

Videos exist of Russian police literally dragging men into draft offices.

Refusal means prison, same as Ukraine, but Russia also locks its borders to stop draft dodgers.

Desertion happens too, Wagner mutinied ffs!

Thousands jailed for refusing orders, and intercepted calls show soldiers wanting out.

Ukraine also has ugly draft videos, sure, but pretending Russia doesn't force men is just ignoring piles of documented evidence from Russian and international sources.







https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4hufewANJYI

[Kurokage]

This is why we can't have a productive conversation on the matter. You willfully ignore that it wasn't Ukraine kicking Russian puppets out but the west doing so. You have done nothing but push an untrue narritive since day 1...if you are going to take sides at least be honest...

I think the reason why we can't have a productive conversation is because we seem to have a bunch of Putin sympathizers on the boards, who don't seem to be able to grasp the concept of a foreign invading force being the bad guys here. With the first untrue narrative being pushed is that Putin is doing this out of the kindness of his heart to save the Russian people, that some of you seem to think is what is happening here??

[putnam6]

Anyway, the conclusion in your Grok quote doesn't justify what you've been ranting about all evening.

Carry on.

Imagine someone whispering softly and quietly into your ear

What an epiphany

If you say it enough, it must be true...

FWIW, my shit is mild compared to many from the peanut gallery...

Anyway, I am grateful you've, in your wisdom, decided to let me continue to "carry on," though I will try and calm down and type in soothing, nice, peaceful words for those suffering from PMBSD

If we only had such decisive command and leadership skills nationally, the country, dare I say the world, would be a better place.

This might be too exciting, but I thought it was it was apropos

Rejoice, rejoice, we have no choice but to...

[putnam6]

Wait I thought the sanctions had them fighting with shovels and washing machines...last I heard they would collapse years ago.

meanwhile countries like India told the US to kick rocks in relations to further sanctions on oil and gas.

Russia is producing 2-4x more weapons than before the war and improving them at the same time...but sanctions will stop them...lol

Its part of why I discount a lot of western reporting on the topic...they have now proven to be wildly off base. This war has done nothing but tip NATOs hand to Russia and allow them years of real world experience against some of our best tactics.

I don't believe Ukraine is the pioneer of all this drone warfare...that wreaks of US SF ingenuity. Particularly Green Berets as their typical role is to go in small numbers and train foreign forces to take on bigger better equipped forces. These are tricks we could have held back for an actual time it was worth using...not to cover our ass in a failed attempt to pull sway from a country on Russia's doorstep.

Ive heard rumors of Green Berets in country early on, surely Biden wasnt bold enough to authorize such a mission?

If true, all bets are off

As Russia lobs another missile at a civilian target

[Kurokage]

I think if you read the paper I linked in my last post you might have a bit different understanding of how this all happened. It has all the hallmarks of how the west...especially the US runs coups and regime change. 

I would expect we would do the same in a similar situation if Russia tried to do that in say mexico...Iean we have gone to covert war and regime change in ever South American country Russia got in with all through the cold war. Its one reason we have such shit relations down there...they remember. And we backed our favored dictators to rule in a lot of cases...since everyone is so stuck on Putin being a dictator. If you are going to cheer for a side at least be honest what you're cheering for...

Edit: Here is a fun not much talked about excerpt from this paper...keep in mind this is a scholarly paper not the garbage the media writes.

I really do find it hilarious how so many of you like to state the west and US runs coups and regime change with out a single utterance of Russia having a hand in similar dirty tricks. Do you forget Kremlin-friendly president Viktor Yanukovych, who stole an election back in 2004 and the "Orange Revolution” of 2004-05, in which massive protests came out against him and in support of pro-Western rival Viktor Yushchenko, which ended with Ukraine’s Supreme Court throwing out the results and with Yushchenko winning the re-vote.  Yanukovych had been explicitly backed by Putin and had flown directly to Moscow for several meetings, at the same time Yushchenko had nearly died from Dioxin poisoning in an assassination attempt. Do any of you remember the images of him?

President Yanukovych’s violent response to the demonstration was sending riot police to disperse the protesters and passing a package of repressive legislation, which only spurred on the protests. A 100+ protesters died, with half of them shot by snipers in a half-hour-long massacre in February,  The Ukrainian parliament impeach him, and on February 22 Yanukovych fled to Russia, where he's been ever since.

Putin since coming to power, has had a hand in or attempted to manipulate politics in nearly all of it's 'lost' Eastern Europe, that most of you seem completely oblivious to or don't want to see. 
I really do get that a lot of you seem only interested in where your $$$ are being spent, but Putin had tried to manipulate Ukraine and it's people, invading purely because he wasn't successful at doing it through under handed manipulation. 

Trump treating Putin like a 'great friend' and a 'statesman' in front of cameras wasn't the best idea and it should have been done a lot more low key. All Trump accomplished in his attention seeking was having to listen Putins demands, and walked away with nothing to show for it, no cease fire, and made to look like Putins little messenger boy.

[FlyersFan]

For what it's worth ...
Reported by NBC ... 
NBC is the worst source for news reports, totally untrustworthy.
But it sounds interesting .... who knows ... my mind goes to the supernatural.  Perhaps this really happened and they actually saw the devil behind the human Putin mask.  What can leave confident adults 'ashen and frightened' after a short meeting with someone ... someone who is a stone cold mass murderer and thief, and who can plunge the world into a nuclear war with the snap of his corrupt/evil fingers?

Like I said .. NBC is the worst America has in regards to reporting ... but .... 

Story Here - Trump Advisers Ashen Faced and Scared After Meeting with Putin

It follows Friday's dramatic summit between Putin and Trump, during which some observers claim the Russian President left the U.S. entourage 'ashen faced'.
 Describing the mood of Trump's aides such as Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt and Special Envoy Steve Witkoff after the meeting, NBC News Chief White House Correspondent Peter Alexander said their 'eyes were wide' and 'ashen'.
 'What struck me was the looks on the faces of a lot of the American delegation,' he said.
 Leavitt 'appeared to be stressed out and anxious', he noted, while Witkoff 'came into the room, then left quickly, then came back in'.
 'Those were some of the sort of images that will stick with me as we leave here.'
 MSNBC host Antonia Hylton also suggested that Leavitt looked 'ashen' and 'frightened' after what she had witnessed 'behind closed doors' as she emerged from Trump's meeting with the Russian president.
 'A lot of the press corps that was there, they reported in the minutes and hours after the presser that they saw members of the administration, like Karoline Leavitt, look ashen, almost frightened after what they had seen behind closed doors,' Hylton said on Saturday night's episode of MSNBC's The Weekend: Primetime.

[putnam6]

I really do find it hilarious how so many of you like to state the west and US runs coups and regime change with out a single utterance of Russia having a hand in similar dirty tricks. Do you forget Kremlin-friendly president Viktor Yanukovych, who stole an election back in 2004 and the "Orange Revolution” of 2004-05, in which massive protests came out against him and in support of pro-Western rival Viktor Yushchenko, which ended with Ukraine’s Supreme Court throwing out the results and with Yushchenko winning the re-vote.  Yanukovych had been explicitly backed by Putin and had flown directly to Moscow for several meetings, at the same time Yushchenko had nearly died from Dioxin poisoning in an assassination attempt. Do any of you remember the images of him?

President Yanukovych’s violent response to the demonstration was sending riot police to disperse the protesters and passing a package of repressive legislation, which only spurred on the protests. A 100+ protesters died, with half of them shot by snipers in a half-hour-long massacre in February,  The Ukrainian parliament impeach him, and on February 22 Yanukovych fled to Russia, where he's been ever since.

Putin since coming to power, has had a hand in or attempted to manipulate politics in nearly all of it's 'lost' Eastern Europe, that most of you seem completely oblivious to or don't want to see. 
I really do get that a lot of you seem only interested in where your $$$ are being spent, but Putin had tried to manipulate Ukraine and it's people, invading purely because he wasn't successful at doing it through under handed manipulation. 

Trump treating Putin like a 'great friend' and a 'statesman' in front of cameras wasn't the best idea and it should have been done a lot more low key. All Trump accomplished in his attention seeking was having to listen Putins demands, and walked away with nothing to show for it, no cease fire, and made to look like Putins little messenger boy.

So because shitty communist Russia is corrupt, graft-filled, manipulative, sneaky azzholes,
Then it's A-Ok, democratic peace-loving freedom-fighting ​​​​​​Uncle Sam should aspire to do the same?

What unmitigated bullshit logic is that...

If all your friends beat and rob somebody, it's ok for you to do it too....FFS America isn't Russia

America should be strong enough to effect change without the subterfuge...

[andy06shake]

For what it's worth ...
Reported by NBC ... 
NBC is the worst source for news reports, totally untrustworthy.
But it sounds interesting .... who knows ... my mind goes to the supernatural.  Perhaps this really happened and they actually saw the devil behind the human Putin mask.  What can leave confident adults 'ashen and frightened' after a short meeting with someone ... someone who is a stone cold mass murderer and thief, and who can plunge the world into a nuclear war with the snap of his corrupt/evil fingers?

Like I said .. NBC is the worst America has in regards to reporting ... but .... 

Story Here - Trump Advisers Ashen Faced and Scared After Meeting with Putin

He possibly did a little Russian dance and rattled the nuclear sabre in front of Trump.
 
And Donald kowtowed, or responded in some other senile manner.
 
They may just now be coming to the realisation that Trump is not the best person to try making deals with ex-KGB megalomaniac dictators.

Again, as I've said before, it's not Trump who should be in the room with him, it's Zelenskyy, the leader of the sovereign nation that has been invaded.
 
Trump cannot bring about peace in 24 hours, nor can he do so in Alaska.

The only people who can put an end to the continued bloodshed are Putin and Zelenskyy.

Anything else is simply showboating and window dressing for the masses.

[putnam6]

He possibly done a little Russian dance and rattled the nuclear sabre in front of Trump.

And Donald kowtowed or responded in some other senile manner.

They may just be coming to the realisation that Trump's not the best person to try and make deals with ex-KGB megolomaniac dictators.

Again, and as i have said before, it's not Trump that should have been in a room with him, it's Zelenskyy, the same person whose sovereign nation they have invaded.

So Uncle Sam is just supposed to empty our arsenals and hand over the MIC American Express card, FTN 

70 billion buys Uncle Sam a seat at the table... 

• United States: $70.6 billion
  
• European Union (institutions): $22.4 billion
  
• Germany: $10.9 billion
  
• United Kingdom: $10.5 billion
  
• Denmark: $8.0 billion
  
• Netherlands: $7.9 billion
  
• Sweden: $5.6 billion
  
• Poland: $4.9 billion
  
• Canada: $2.8 billion
  
• Norway: $1.9 billion
  
• Finland: $1.8 billion
  
• Czech Republic: $1.4 billion
  
• Lithuania: $1.1 billion
  
• Australia: $0.9 billion
  
• Estonia: $0.82 billion
  
• Latvia: $0.61 billion
  
• Slovakia: $0.76 billion
  
• France: $0.7 billion (estimated, due to lower transparency)
  
• Italy: $0.5 billion (estimated, due to lower transparency)
  
• Japan: $0.1 billion
  
• Turkey: $0.1 billion
  

Notes:

• Amounts are bilateral military aid commitments from January 24, 2022, to December 2024, converted to USD where necessary (e.g., €64.6 billion for the US ≈ $70.6 billion).
  
• EU institutional aid is separate from member states’ bilateral contributions.
  
• Some figures (e.g., France, Italy) may be underreported due to less transparent data.