Trump Announces Alaska Summit with Putin

[Oldcarpy2]

And yet here you are...still posting here and still replying to me. You can't even be honest about your own intentions...much less the subject being discussed here...

Oh FFS.  Bye.

Please feel free to have the last word on you keyboard.

[RickyD]

It's very simple. Ukraine was a sovereign nation when John McCain and Victoria Nuland, and other American politicians started dicking around in Ukraine.

If Russia or China's political leaders and appointees did the same in Mexico or Canada, Uncle Sam would go bugshit immediately

I mean we did do that...in literally every nation which Russia cozied up to in South America and Cuba...just to name ones near by us. We also did the same around the world for decades when it wasn't even on our boarders...

Communism sucks...I wouldn't want to live under it...but its not my place to choose governments or governance sytles for other countries...thats their bed to make and lay in...

[andy06shake]

And Ukraine kidnapping people off the streets to fight with maybe 2 weeks training is gonna do anything. Most of the troops they have are looking gor the first opportunity to escape. Meanwhile Russia still has volunteer soldiers mostly. A lot of the Russians enlisting do so for the money and know what they are getting into for that money.

The whole point of attritional war is to burn out the enemies manpower...which is happening before our eyes. Things move slow...until a breaking point is reached...then it all starts cascade failing and the winner just steamrolls it all. If peace isn't reached Russia will end up with all of Ukraine...and I don't think anyone wants to see that.

That take is kinda skewed.

Ukraine isn't just "kidnapping" random people, like every country at war, they use conscription.

And as far as im aware a significant proportion of their army is actually volunteers, or at least what's left standing. 

The Russians are doing exactly the same thing.

Two weeks of training is an exaggeration, plenty of troops have been trained abroad for months, Russia does not have that luxary aside from fielding 1500 NK troops. 

And desertion exists on both sides.

Lots of Russians have dodged mobilisation or fled the country to the tune of nearly a million men. 

Russia's losses are also massive, just like Ukraine's, probably worse, given the fact that they are the attacking side.

Ukraine's still holding key ground with NATO support, so it's far from a guaranteed Russian steamroll.

If that was the case, the nation would have folded in 3 days, it did not, and still they stand.

[putnam6]

I mean we did do that...in literally every nation which Russia cozied up to in South America and Cuba...just to name ones near by us. We also did the same around the world for decades when it wasn't even on our boarders...

Communism sucks...I wouldn't want to live under it...but its not my place to choose governments or governance sytles for other countries...thats their bed to make and lay in...

All true, of course, but when it was 90 miles from Miami, is when the SEEEYEAY got bold and talked JFK into the Bay of Pigs, and going after Castro

[DBCowboy]

It's very simple. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia invaded it. There are very few valid reasons to do so, and "encroachment" of a military alliance is certainly not one of them. Ukraine, as a sovereign nation, gets to decide who they want to be allies with. And it has to be said: Russian aggression greatly validates its attempt to join NATO.

Putin is an imperialist who thinks he has historical claim to Ukraine. This is obvious if you listen to him. The NATO thing is an excuse, and it's so sad to see Americans being manipulated into essentially blaming themselves for this because their cult leader is Putin's lap dog. Embarrassing.

Fair enough.  How do YOU plan on defeating Russia.

[RickyD]

That take is kinda skewed.

Ukraine isn't just "kidnapping" random people, like every country at war, they use conscription.

And as far as im aware a significant proportion of their army is actually volunteers, or at least what's left standing. 

Russia is not rolling around snatching men off the streets and forcing them to serve. They offer monetary incentive to join and that attracts many to sign up because they see it as a way out of poverty. They do have conscripts but they are not forcing people onto the front. You go to jail if you don't go fight not like in Ukraine where you just get forced to the front. The difference is obvious...if you try to force someone to fight they won't be effective and will more often than not run at first chance or surrender to get out of the fight.

This is pretty well documented on both sides and if you go looking you can read and watch plenty about it on both sides.

I have yet to see video of Russian MOD dragging people into vans to force into war...I have seen a lot of video of Ukraine doing that.

I haven't seen any documentation or evidence of Russian units abandoning positions against orders or deserting in large numbers...I have seen such from the Ukrainian side. 

It makes sense looking at the lines and daily reports coming from the few objective people reporting on the war. I am happy to look at whatever sources you are using to inform your position though.

Edit: also unrelated but for some reason I can't use the quote button on any mod posts to reply to them. Not sure if bug or intentional but I've not been able to quote any mod on any thread here.

[xuenchen]

Good example of how a MSM Puppet like The NYTimes can go to great lengths to author total propaganda articles like this one:


Zelensky Brings Backup to the White House as Trump Aligns More Closely With Putin

Story filled to the rim with inuendo and total anti-Trump BS 

[UltraBudgie]

Good example of how a MSM Puppet like The NYTimes can go to great lengths to author total propaganda articles like this one:


Zelensky Brings Backup to the White House as Trump Aligns More Closely With Putin

Story filled to the rim with inuendo and total anti-Trump BS 

Lol at the top-rated comment on that story:

All I know is President George H.W. Bush didn't tell Saddam Hussein he could keep a chunk of Kuwait back in the first Gulf War. Anything less than a total withdrawal by the Russians from pre-war borders is totally unacceptable.

No, GHWB didn't tell him that during the first Gulf War. He told him that before the first Gulf War. That's why Saddam thought it was safe to invade Kuwait in the first place. What a sucker.

History, it rhymes...


Edit: "We have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait. I was in the American Embassy in Kuwait during the late 1960s. The instruction we had during this period was that we should express no opinion on this issue and that the issue is not associated with America…We hope you can solve this problem using any suitable methods via Klibi (Chedli Klibi, Secretary General of the Arab League) or via President Mubarak. All that we hope is that these issues are solved quickly." - Ambassador April Glaspie to Saddam Hussein, July 25, 1990
https://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/23/world...envoy.html

[Unknownparadox]

It's very simple. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia invaded it. There are very few valid reasons to do so, and "encroachment" of a military alliance is certainly not one of them.

It is a very good reason to invade. The closer NATO gets to the Kremlin the quicker a first strike on it would be. And we know America will strike first. Not that I like putin or any other dictator. But we have no choice to but to deal with dictators, unless we plan on taking over the entire world. Which actually seems to be the plan.

[putnam6]

Fair enough.  How do YOU plan on defeating Russia.

By spending billions, embezzling millions, and killing thousands... Till Putin taps out, probably circa 2027 or 2028

BCSWNFB

After this long, I can easily see it lasting 3-4 MORE years before one side vanquishes the other completely.

But Im sure Raytheon and Rheinmetall absolutely love forever wars