The never ending question, the Giza pyramids

[SurferSoul]

Here is a diagram of the hieroglyphs found inside sealed chambers that were blown open with black powder.
How many cartouches do you see? All are names of Khufu, but the glyphs are different in some because he had more than one name.
https://ahotcupofjoe.net/wp-content/uplo...24x510.png

Harte

Those crappy glyphs? Most like forged by the guy who used dynamite everywhere…
what was his name again? Not dynamic Danny, the other one. ;)

[Harte]

Those crappy glyphs? Most like forged by the guy who used dynamite everywhere…
what was his name again? Not dynamic Danny, the other one. ;)

You'd need to explain why Vyse "forged" these glyphs using hieratic script, which at the time was thought to have been developed several hundred years AFTER Khufu.
So, Vyse forged something using a script that all of Egyptology considered not to have been in use yet during the Old Kingdom.
That's a pretty lousy forger.
Also, you'd have to explain how it is that Vyse, who was unable to read hieroglyphics, was able to write two different versions of Khufu's name, one of which was basically entirely unknown at the time.
You'd also have to explain how Vyse could write the gang names found there, which were utterly unknown at the time, though similar gang names were found later all over Giza and elsewhere.

Let me also point out that the Djedi robot that crawled up the "air shaft" in the queen's chamber found hieroglyphs and quarry marks in there as well - dozens of meters into an opening no larger than 8 in. by 10 in., and that Hawass led Graham Hancock on a tour of the relieving chamber glyphs where Hancock reported seeing hieroglyphic writing on the sides of stones extending back into the wall by looking in cracks with a flashlight.

See? It's very easy to hand wave something away when you know little or nothing at all about the thing you're dismissing.

Harte

[Hanslune]

Those crappy glyphs? Most like forged by the guy who used dynamite everywhere…
what was his name again? Not dynamic Danny, the other one. ;)

Yep, so you accept this as real then, thanks

[Hanslune]

You'd need to explain why Vyse "forged" these glyphs using hieratic script, which at the time was thought to have been developed several hundred years AFTER Khufu.
So, Vyse forged something using a script that all of Egyptology considered not to have been in use yet during the Old Kingdom.
That's a pretty lousy forger.
Also, you'd have to explain how it is that Vyse, who was unable to read hieroglyphics, was able to write two different versions of Khufu's name, one of which was basically entirely unknown at the time.
You'd also have to explain how Vyse could write the gang names found there, which were utterly unknown at the time, though similar gang names were found later all over Giza and elsewhere.

Let me also point out that the Djedi robot that crawled up the "air shaft" in the queen's chamber found hieroglyphs and quarry marks in there as well - dozens of meters into an opening no larger than 8 in. by 10 in., and that Hawass led Graham Hancock on a tour of the relieving chamber glyphs where Hancock reported seeing hieroglyphic writing on the sides of stones extending back into the wall by looking in cracks with a flashlight.

See? It's very easy to hand wave something away when you know little or nothing at all about the thing you're dismissing.

Harte

Yep and lets not forget Goyon and Ginsells builders mark. Khufu’s name on backing stones found in 1947. Grinsell and Goyon noted this crew's name on Khufu pyramid located on an exposed core blocks (although Goyon provides an illustration): 4th course, west face, 71st stone on leaving the north angle.https://i.imgur.com/kLUuPjA.jpg

[Hanslune]

Final call for actual evidence for the existence of the oft claimed Lost and invisible Civilization that the fringe believe built the pyramids? Going once, going twice.........

[SurferSoul]

Final call for actual evidence for the existence of the oft claimed Lost and invisible Civilization that the fringe believe built the pyramids? Going once, going twice.........

My issue with the mainstream consensus Egyptology, is the crappy tools we are told they did the precision work with in hard stone. Why would they go to the trouble of finishing the inside of the black granite boxes at the Sarepeum and such, with mirror like surfaces. That are so flat the tolerance is measured in micrometers? What is the point of going to so much trouble? We would struggle to replicate these with modern equipment. The tools found aren’t up to the job. Simple as that. 

I can’t read hieroglyphs so can’t argue Hartes point on what’s said. I also am not retired, I have much more pressing matters than getting back to you lot in my life, so have some patience. But I remember Scott Creighton brought up this matter back in the day on ATS. It would be good if I could revisit the thread somehow. I haven’t had time to look up or research anything yet, so give me chance. But I also haven’t had many of points like what I have just mentioned above satisfactorily answered either.

[Harte]

My issue with the mainstream consensus Egyptology, is the crappy tools we are told they did the precision work with in hard stone. Why would they go to the trouble of finishing the inside of the black granite boxes at the Serapeum and such, with mirror like surfaces. That are so flat the tolerance is measured in micrometers? What is the point of going to so much trouble? We would struggle to replicate these with modern equipment. The tools found aren’t up to the job. Simple as that.

You've been misled.
You can't quote any actual precision in the Serapeum sarcophagi. Other than the fact that they aren't precise, all you can do is quote the fringe on what THEY claim about them.
Please keep in mind that at the time these sarcophagi were made, Egyptians had already been making stone sarcophagi all down through the years for two millennia.
These sarcophagi date to late in the New Kingdom. Some of them date to the Ptolemaic Kingdom (Greco-Roman.)
Regarding the surfaces, they were done in the same way we make surface plates to calibrate instruments with today - by rubbing stones together.

I can’t read hieroglyphs so can’t argue Hartes point on what’s said. I also am not retired, I have much more pressing matters than getting back to you lot in my life, so have some patience. But I remember Scott Creighton brought up this matter back in the day on ATS. It would be good if I could revisit the thread somehow. I haven’t had time to look up or research anything yet, so give me chance. But I also haven’t had many of points like what I have just mentioned above satisfactorily answered either.

Yes, Creighton has a small cottage industry involving libeling Howard Vyse. God only knows why, since his "colleagues" have accepted that what Graham Hancock pointed out is proof that the workers graffiti was done by Egyptians and done before the stones were placed.
You can go through his craziness below, if you have a masochistic bent.
https://web.archive.org/web/202110100738...1/srtpages

Harte

[Hanslune]

My issue with the mainstream consensus Egyptology, is the crappy tools we are told they did the precision work with in hard stone. Why would they go to the trouble of finishing the inside of the black granite boxes at the Sarepeum and such, with mirror like surfaces. That are so flat the tolerance is measured in micrometers? What is the point of going to so much trouble? We would struggle to replicate these with modern equipment. The tools found aren’t up to the job. Simple as that. 

I can’t read hieroglyphs so can’t argue Hartes point on what’s said. I also am not retired, I have much more pressing matters than getting back to you lot in my life, so have some patience. But I remember Scott Creighton brought up this matter back in the day on ATS. It would be good if I could revisit the thread somehow. I haven’t had time to look up or research anything yet, so give me chance. But I also haven’t had many of points like what I have just mentioned above satisfactorily answered either.

Thanks for the reply, take your time. Well if you bring up Crichton Byrd ate his head recently to save us all from spew overload, on another board. Why would people do the extensive work to make nice pieces? The same reason folks in the twelfth century spent a huge amount of resources and time to build this: https://i.imgur.com/qa3SXGB.jpg, or this four hundred years after that cathedral: https://i.imgur.com/PmdUYGq.jpg, which is far more technically difficult than anything the Egyptian or Inca did. So why did they do it? Religion and doing what the guy in charge said to do  - two very power tools to get things done.

[SurferSoul]

You've been misled.
You can't quote any actual precision in the Serapeum sarcophagi. Other than the fact that they aren't precise, all you can do is quote the fringe on what THEY claim about them.
Please keep in mind that at the time these sarcophagi were made, Egyptians had already been making stone sarcophagi all down through the years for two millennia.
These sarcophagi date to late in the New Kingdom. Some of them date to the Ptolemaic Kingdom (Greco-Roman.)
Regarding the surfaces, they were done in the same way we make surface plates to calibrate instruments with today - by rubbing stones together.

Err, come man I’ve seen the videos of engineers in there with various engineering grade measuring tools. I’ve seen them reflected in the mirror like finishes including the underneath of the lid. To say they aren’t precise is ridiculous. 
The writing on the outside looks crude by comparison, looks like something else that was re-purposed because of that. 
The shear effort of getting a flat surface within micrometers is extremely hard to do, what would be the purpose of going to such trouble for the inside of these boxes? I know they are said to be sarcophagus for sacred bulls, but this is the inside, that nobody was meant to see. 
I have also heard the new kingdom was less advanced in many ways than the old kingdom. I recall war was the reason for this? I can’t help thinking the dates are all wrong. Like say Bronze Age people finding and repurposing Neolithic structures. It would be an easy mistake to attribute the Neolithic to the Bronze Age in such a case, if all the carbon dating only went back that far.

[Harte]

Err, come man I’ve seen the videos of engineers in there with various engineering grade measuring tools. I’ve seen them reflected in the mirror like finishes including the underneath of the lid. To say they aren’t precise is ridiculous. 

The harder the stone, the finer the finish that can be achieved.
As I said, to this day we make surface plates (used to calibrate the very surface flatness gauges we use to measure flatness) by rubbing stones against each other.
As far as geometric precision, you've seen what Christopher Dunn wanted you to see.

The writing on the outside looks crude by comparison, looks like something else that was re-purposed because of that. 
The shear effort of getting a flat surface within micrometers is extremely hard to do, what would be the purpose of going to such trouble for the inside of these boxes? I know they are said to be sarcophagus for sacred bulls, but this is the inside, that nobody was meant to see. 

Scribes didn't just walk in and start carving hieroglyphs on things. Some of the writing you've seen looks like scratches because that's what it is - scratches. It is the layout for the glyphs that were never carved on that particular box.
Here's a different sarcophagus there. Note that these are on the inside of the sarcophagus:

I have also heard the new kingdom was less advanced in many ways than the old kingdom. I recall war was the reason for this? I can’t help thinking the dates are all wrong. Like say Bronze Age people finding and repurposing Neolithic structures. It would be an easy mistake to attribute the Neolithic to the Bronze Age in such a case, if all the carbon dating only went back that far.

Consider that Egyptians were cutting sarcophagi for pharaohs for a very long time before the first true pyramid was ever built. Realize what that means concerning the number of tool marks available for inspection and the dozens of unfinished stone sarcophagi that basically show how they did it.

Consider that the original sections of this particular Serapeum are much older than what you see from Dunn. The great and lesser vaults are relative newcomers. There are thousands of animals buried there.

Consider the canal from the Nile - which is still there, though dry.

Keep in mind the administrative proclamation made by the pharaoh that started the construction on these vaults, and the plaques left by worshippers that had dates and names on them.

Whatever you want to believe, however you want to interpret it, all of these things (and there are more things than I list here) have to be taken into consideration. They can't be hand-waved away through simple incredulity.

Harte