The never ending question, the Giza pyramids

[Hanslune]

The stones all show scars from dragging, in places that aren't supposed to be exposed. The exposed scarring was cleared off by pecking and rubbing with abrasives, the same way many of the nubs were removed.

At Ollantaytambo, at Sacsayhuaman, AND at Puma Punku (Tiwanaku,) quarried stones were left abandoned along the path from the quarry to the construction site.

Harte

Yep this famous fellow was moved by the Tiwanaku and abandoned and shows pecking, bashing and abrasive use. https://i.imgur.com/Dssmx1H.jpg

[Hanslune]

Thanks for all the interesting points but back to the original question - where is the evidence of the civilization that supposedly built all those structures. I've run out of time for tonight but will get to other replies soon. But consider the problem a civilization would have had to exist, we have evidence of culture in the Nile going back 40,000+ years but no sign of this 'lost and invisible civilization'.

[sahgwa]

There is this recent article how the Great Pyramid shows signs it was submerged.  I am one of the nuts that think the pyramids and sphinx are far older than the Egyptians.  Also some of the megalithic blocks on the bottom, like the ones at Baalbek are just too large to have been moved with wood and rope.

https://www.theburningplatform.com/2025/...do-theory/

[sahgwa]

Thanks for all the interesting points but back to the original question - where is the evidence of the civilization that supposedly built all those structures. I've run out of time for tonight but will get to other replies soon. But consider the problem a civilization would have had to exist, we have evidence of culture in the Nile going back 40,000+ years but no sign of this 'lost and invisible civilization'.

The monuments that we can't even build today , are the signs!  The perfectly cut stone 'boxes' in the 'Osirion' don't even fit through the doorway and are too heavy to lift especially with the limited space. Yet there they are.  
Given millennia things like plastic and glass and metal wear and rust and disintegrate. 
One day our civilisation will be a myth also, after volcanoes, earthquakes, floods, fires, tectonic movement etc grind it all away.

[Hanslune]

Reminder the purpose of this thread is to look at evidence that supports LICBIT

Lost
Invisible
Civilization
Built
IT

In regards to the pyramids and much of the other buildings in the well evidenced Egyptian Civilization. I'm starting to get the impression there isn't any except for those cultures that were in the Nile Valley and later evolved into the Egyptian Civilization

[Hanslune]

The monuments that we can't even build today , are the signs!  The perfectly cut stone 'boxes' in the 'Osirion' don't even fit through the doorway and are too heavy to lift especially with the limited space. Yet there they are.  
Given millennia things like plastic and glass and metal wear and rust and disintegrate. 
One day our civilisation will be a myth also, after volcanoes, earthquakes, floods, fires, tectonic movement etc grind it all away.

Thanks, but I think you mean the New Kingdom construction of Serapeum of Saqqara and the tomb of the Apis bulls. The predecessors of Egypt left clear evidence of their existence, see the Naqada. No what you suggest are not evidence of an existing ancient civilization. They left no foundations. quarries, pottery, glass or burials all of which leave long lasting marks, we have wooden spear going back 320,000 years so even organic material can survived in certain cases. We in this thread are looking for archaeological evidence to support LICBIT, not opinions.     ?

[sahgwa]

Reminder the purpose of this thread is to look at evidence that supports LICBIT

Lost
Invisible
Civilization
Built
IT

In regards to the pyramids and much of the other buildings in the well evidenced Egyptian Civilization. I'm starting to get the impression there isn't any except for those cultures that were in the Nile Valley and later evolved into the Egyptian Civilization

So to be clear, you are looking for artifacts that can survive 10,000+ years? 
Because if you hold the derisively called LIC built the pyramids, then you also have to hold that they are at least 10,000 years old due to the water erosion on the Sphinx and signs that the Egyptians did not, like lack of hieroglyphics, architectural style differences etc. 
I don't think our computers would last that long in the dirt let alone whatever technology these people used. The monuments in stone are the only thing that would weather all the global changes.
After thousands of years the plastic would turn into black gooey mush. Like oil. And carbon.

Edit to say, as you have mentioned, there are spears that are 300k+ years old but not around there; the conditions have to be just so.
There are odds that none of our civilisation could be visible 300k years from now, you just never know.

Also, remember we are currently living in a globe with primitive peoples existing coterminous with 'advanced' peoples.  Natives in rainforests and transhumanist freaks in NYC that never leave their apartments on VR.  

The people that built the pyramids, were said to have come from the ocean.  They could have been survivors of a cataclysm that sunk all their artifacts and evidence, leaving only knowledge and vague abilities that may have been based on spirit, like levitation.  Whatever the technology, it could have built the pyramids and left no trace.

[SurferSoul]

Reminder the purpose of this thread is to look at evidence that supports LICBIT

Lost
Invisible
Civilization
Built
IT

In regards to the pyramids and much of the other buildings in the well evidenced Egyptian Civilization. I'm starting to get the impression there isn't any except for those cultures that were in the Nile Valley and later evolved into the Egyptian Civilization

Should have said that in the first place then. 
On the one hand we are told the Egyptians were a primitive civilisation that didn’t even have the wheel when the pyramids were built. That they only had Bronze tools, (which is to soft to work granite and other hard stone) That the pyramids were tombs(yet no pharaoh was ever found inside one) That the great Pyramid was built by Knufu, the evidence for this we are told is some crappy inscription hidden away somewhere on a block inside the pyramid. ( most likely a forgery) considering the Pharaohs liked to stamp  their Cartouches all over including over the top of old cartouche. It’s rather odd there is nothing solid about how it was built, in their texts or anything. Their single greatest achievement and there is no record or blueprint of it? 

Yes there is a workers settlement associated with the pyramids, but how do we know they weren’t conducting repairs? How do we know they didn’t inherit the monuments and adopted them as their own, like they did with some of the exquisite vases? Where is the solid evidence? 

These are the arguments I have heard, but for me personally it comes down to the shear ignorance of Archaeology’s and Egyptologist’s claiming a primitive almost backward people were capable of mind blowing sculptures in very hard, yet brittle stone. Engineering feats, and work of such precision( as with the boxes at the Serapeum) that the tolerance is in micrometers. 

I can understand that the study of Archaeology/Egyptology is so in depth and complex, that one wouldn’t know about Engineering principles as well, and therefore make assumptions based on that lack of knowledge. So I’m not knocking anyone. But at least listen to the Engineers and geologists when they point out such errors. 

Also before citing Stocks ridiculous Archeo-engineering experiments and his attempts at using bronze saws embedded with granite finings to cut granite? Explain the stirations left behind, which show the cutting tools were rotating at high speed.


Bottom line, either the AE had the appropriate knowledge, mechanical equipment(electricity not required) to do the work we find, or it wasn’t them that did it.

[Hanslune]

So to be clear, you are looking for artifacts that can survive 10,000+ years? 

Because if you hold the derisively called LIC built the pyramids, then you also have to hold that they are at least 10,000 years old due to the water erosion on the Sphinx and signs that the Egyptians did not, like lack of hieroglyphics, architectural style differences etc. 
I don't think our computers would last that long in the dirt let alone whatever technology these people used. The monuments in stone are the only thing that would weather all the global changes.
After thousands of years the plastic would turn into black gooey mush. Like oil. And carbon.

Edit to say, as you have mentioned, there are spears that are 300k+ years old but not around there; the conditions have to be just so.
There are odds that none of our civilisation could be visible 300k years from now, you just never know.

Also, remember we are currently living in a globe with primitive peoples existing coterminous with 'advanced' peoples.  Natives in rainforests and transhumanist freaks in NYC that never leave their apartments on VR.  

The people that built the pyramids, were said to have come from the ocean.  They could have been survivors of a cataclysm that sunk all their artifacts and evidence, leaving only knowledge and vague abilities that may have been based on spirit, like levitation.  Whatever the technology, it could have built the pyramids and left no trace.

Ah well Gobekli Tepe sure does exist. There are no foundations for the LIC, no pottery - pottery lasts a long time, the oldest known goes back to 29,000–25,000 BCE. Other early examples of pottery have also been found in Jōmon Japan (10,500 BC), the Russian Far East (14,000 BC), and Sub-Saharan Africa (9,400 BC), We have clear evidence of other cultures in the Nile Valley going back 40,000 years so if we can find those where is the LIC? Here is basic simplified information about prehistoric Egypt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Egypt. There are thousands of Naqada artifacts, hundreds of thousands of old Kingdom, hundreds/thousands for the earlier cultures...

[Hanslune]

Should have said that in the first place then. 

I did the purpose of this thread is: from the first post: "We shall assume the Ancient Egyptians did not build the pyramids". One day they walked out of the drying Sahara, somewhere circa 4,500 BCE, and found all those building: all the pyramids, all the granite, limestone and sandstone structure and megalithic temples from one end of the Nile to the other, all the fantastic stone vases and statues too all just sitting there not a soul around. 

So, what is the evidence that the fringe claims it has, that any of these objects or constructions predated 4,500BCE and what evidence do we have for the mysterious builders like we do for the other cultures in the Nile valley going back 40,000 years?"

So what evidence do you have for this LIC? So, you should TRY to make argument for why we don't find any evidence for this LIC. No cities, no habitations, no pottery, no burials etc.