The Ten Commandments and the changed Roman Catholic version

[BeyondKnowledge]

Oh for crying out loud! Where do the words Ten Commandments show up in the Exodus story?

Exodus 34:28
What are those commandments? Read them in verses 10-26.
They command some very genocidal behavior. Command, not suggest.
There is genocide happening today in that "promised land". Do you think that's okay?

Do you think the United States is okay as long as no national Sunday Law is passed? Will you tolerate and go along with any Christian Nationalism as long as you personally are allowed to keep the 7th day Sabbath?

I would rather follow man made Geneva Convention laws, and International Criminal Court, and UN Universal Human Rights declarations, than anything written in that library of books written by men called the Bible.
[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSMqesZz3tU]

James Russell Lowell - The Present Crisis

Of which sabbath are you speaking of? The days of the week within a year do not match the modern calendar in any way.

Back when the Bible was written all 12 month had exactly 28 days with no exceptions. There were 2 days between each month not counted any way on a calendar or having a name. 

By this, the sabbath can be on any modern day of the week and will change each month. This is of course not counting the argument of it being on Saturday or Sunday. Those days being named after Saturn and the Sun. 

So, if one were to make the sabbath law, how is it to be applied?

[UltraBudgie]

That may be considered pagan behavior.

I know you read the other section

[Bootless]

By this, the sabbath can be on any modern day of the week and will change each month. This is of course not counting the argument of it being on Saturday or Sunday. Those days being named after Saturn and the Sun. 

So, if one were to make the sabbath law, how is it to be applied?

The seven day week has its roots in ancient Mesopotamia. We can only hope that the Canaanites who transformed themselves into Hebrews consulted the wise men of the East and kept the weekly cycle going. Short of that, it's a crap shoot, I fear.

The earliest evidence of an astrological significance of a seven-day period is decree of king Sargon of Akkad around 2300 BCE. Akkadians venerated the number seven, and the key celestial bodies visible to the naked eye numbered seven (the Sun, the Moon and the five closest planets)

Wikipedia: Week

[Swada]

I can understand why the original 2nd commandment is important. It has to do the analytical nature of our mind.  If we percieve an image or speak the name for G_D, our mind will assign attributes, to that name or image. Then when we pray, we actually pray to the minds internal represenation of g_d, not G_D himself. So its important to see G_D as the mystery beyond mysteries. Realize we can never comprehend G_D with our mind. We can only experience G_D with our hearts.

Negate, Negate , negate. Be empty of all knowing.  Or as Jesus said, “What I'm about to tell you is true. You need to change and become like little children. If you don't, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

[Maxmars]

Ahhh... the sabbath.  (Or, that day that profit-oriented time-control freaks
like to resent as surrendering to the cessation of commerce.)

Humans are cursed with being word-mincers...
The sabbath is simply a time with a purpose... 

The point of the sabbath, in my opinion, was to address a
common spiritual need, to engage reflection upon the divine
(the nature of God, whatever.)  To actually commune with
God - as a person, - as opposed to as a 'church ritual.'

It's not complicated, except in those who make it so.

Institutions always complicate simple matters. It benefits the 
institution itself to "set rules and standards."

[Sirius]

Although it pains me the two witches has some good points. The books are not what you are lead to believe

The bibles we had changed through my life and many tales I can see now that I learned comes from various Jewish traditions, not sure where these teachers came from. The stories I know and what I read now is not the same. There is also the old family bibles that all disappear.

I remember ours, a massive book and I thought "shooo they made these things big and thick in the older days before print" but no, all small text, paper was precious and there was allot of text, bursting out of it seams with scripture. Probably still some of these left, not sure what happens to them

@IdeomotorPrisoner "It is just my personal opinion that they wanted to insert a bit of sexual restraint culturally" nothing to do with sex per se, it's being aware of the short and long term effects, physical and psychological, being responsible and all that. Of course some folk goes extreme with this. At the end of the day it should be health and wellness. If you don't know about the negative effects or pretend they are negligible; you are ignorant sorry to say, being exploited and harming yourself and others. "Others" will be someone you love

[TheWay]

I think you will resolve this if I point out some of the original Bible history.

This chapter (Exodus) is Jewish in origin.  The Jews have said that the "10 Commandments" (the word in the Torah is actually "statements" and not Commandments) and they are said to be the summary of what the Torah is about (https://www.chabad.org/library/article_c...ry-Day.htm)

And in that section, depending on how you divide the statements, there are 13 or 14 of them. However, the Jews say that these Statements are not the Commandments and that there are 613 Commandments (one entire book full of them.)

NOW... the Bible was put together from many manuscripts (it wasn't something that fell from heaven) 

The first Bible is the Catholic Bible (The list of books included in the Catholic Bible was established as canon by the Council of Rome in 382) and from there we get the oldest known Bible (in Latin -- it's the Catholic Bible) called the Vulgate.  The Vulgate is still around and may be read in its original Latin.

When the Bible was first compiled, Exodus and Deuteronomy BOTH had the "10 Commandments" in them, but with some differences in each.  The Council left both versions in (https://www.chabad.org/library/article_c...dments.htm)  Jewish rabbis explain that the Exodus version is the one before Moses broke the tablets and that Deuteronomy is the revised, later version on the second set of tablets.

The original Bible has no chapters and verses.  It was just a series of books that could be read (like reading Lord of the Rings).  Each book finally was put into chapters by Stephen Langton, the Catholic Archbishop of Canterbury sometime about 1215 AD.  

(There weren't any Protestants around.  The first Protestant was Martin Luther (1483-1546)

Verses got numbered in 1551 (https://ehrmanblog.org/when-did-the-bibl...nd-verses/) by this guy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Estienne) who was born Catholic and converted to Protestantism late in his life.

Nowhere in the Bible is a statement that there are the 10 Commandments.  Moses comes down from Sinai with "the tablets of the law" and modern illustrations show 10 items, but it could have been any number of them written on the stone tablets.

So why are the commandments different for Protestants and Catholics?  It's just a matter of usage.  BOTH versions were created by Catholics -- St. Origen ( c. 185 – c. 253) created a numbering system that many Protestant and Orthodox churches use today. St. Augustine (354-430 AD) used a numbering system in the fifth century that Catholics and Lutherans tend to use. (https://portlanddiocese.org/news/dear-fa...stant-ones)



And if you're worried about the Bible remaining unchanged, then you need to go back to the Catholic Bible.  Martin Luther (10 November 1483 – 18 February 1546) was the guy who changed the Bible, threw out some of the original books, and so forth. (https://steppesoffaith-56895.medium.com/...en%20times).

You speak of those who call themselves "Jews" today as though they have some sort of authority in the matter. Christians are the true Jews. We are the ones who are in covenant relationship with God. The Old Covenant is no more. The Jewish Messiah—Jesus Christ—came 2,000 years ago. Anyone who rejects the Son does not have the Father either. In fact, those who deny the Son are antichrists. It's written in their satanic Talmud that Jesus is currently boiling in hot excrement.

Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son doesn’t have the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also. (1 John 2:22-23 WEBPB)

For you are all children of God, through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptised into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring and heirs according to promise. (Galatians 3:26-29 WEBPB)

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God. (Romans 2:28-29 WEBPB)

“I know your works, oppression, and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. (Revelation 2:9 WEBPB)

God refers to them as the Ten Commandments multiple times in Scripture:

The LORD said to Moses, “Write these words; for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” He was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread, nor drank water. He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. (Exodus 34:27-28 WEBPB)

The LORD spoke to you out of the middle of the fire: you heard the voice of words, but you saw no form; you only heard a voice. He declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even the ten commandments. He wrote them on two stone tablets. The LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and ordinances, that you might do them in the land where you go over to possess it. (Deuteronomy 4:12-14 WEBPB)

At that time the LORD said to me, “Cut two stone tablets like the first, and come up to me onto the mountain, and make an ark of wood. I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you broke, and you shall put them in the ark.” So I made an ark of acacia wood, and cut two stone tablets like the first, and went up onto the mountain, having the two tablets in my hand. He wrote on the tablets, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spoke to you on the mountain out of the middle of the fire in the day of the assembly; and the LORD gave them to me. I turned and came down from the mountain, and put the tablets in the ark which I had made; and there they are as the LORD commanded me. (Deuteronomy 10:1-5 WEBPB)

There is no such thing as Protestant and Catholic in Scripture. There is only Christians and false Christians.

[TheWay]

This seems like an ancient Protestant vs. Catholic difference of interpretation with some accuracy. 

The latter went with St. Augustine (centuries before the former), and the Bible never explicitly numbered the commandments, so the 5th century version was likely to remove one of the first two to add one specific for not coveting the neighbor's wife. 

Apparently...  Men having sex with their neighbors wives was a bigger concern to Rome than Byzantine art or stained glass reliefs of Christ, prophets, or canonized saints, which were not considered graven images or idolatry. 

During Augustine, the Sun and Moon still bore witness in crucifixion depictions, albeit in an adjacent (but continued) culture, which stayed more pagan. Maybe their attitudes towards sex still had too much pagan carry-over? 

In any case, they combined the idolatry ones to split up the the coveteth ones and made art for God less blasphemous in the process. 

Nothing worth starting a conflict or greater war over...

[Video: https://youtu.be/95HqlWRFrAk?si=w2uF8C_saVRmNsUP]

ETA: 

I'm not trying to give you crap. Let's have the real theological discussion over an exchange of one-sided proselytizing. I'm ordained and everything. Love talking interpretation of scripture from all angles 

I genuinely want to discuss the morphology of iconography in early Christianity, their changing social values (including with sex), and life in a culturally distinct, majority Christian, Roman and Byzantine societies. 

It is true The Jews and Protestants number and word The Ten Commandments slightly different than the Catholics, and it could be an interesting discussion as to why they did that.

What if it's mostly about art and sex?

No one has the authority to alter God's commandments—He makes that unmistakably clear in Scripture. You mentioned being "ordained"—ordained as what, exactly?

You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. (Deuteronomy 4:2)

[TheWay]

Oh for crying out loud! Where do the words Ten Commandments show up in the Exodus story?

Exodus 34:28
What are those commandments? Read them in verses 10-26.
They command some very genocidal behavior. Command, not suggest.
There is genocide happening today in that "promised land". Do you think that's okay?

Do you think the United States is okay as long as no national Sunday Law is passed? Will you tolerate and go along with any Christian Nationalism as long as you personally are allowed to keep the 7th day Sabbath?

I would rather follow man made Geneva Convention laws, and International Criminal Court, and UN Universal Human Rights declarations, than anything written in that library of books written by men called the Bible.
[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSMqesZz3tU]

James Russell Lowell - The Present Crisis

God refers to them as the Ten Commandments multiple times in Scripture. Other passages may make it more clear to you which Ten Commandments the Lord was speaking of, and it certainly wasn't those in Exodus 34:10-26, although some of the Ten Commandments are repeated there.

The LORD said to Moses, “Write these words; for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” He was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread, nor drank water. He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. (Exodus 34:27-28 WEBPB)

The LORD spoke to you out of the middle of the fire: you heard the voice of words, but you saw no form; you only heard a voice. He declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even the ten commandments. He wrote them on two stone tablets. The LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and ordinances, that you might do them in the land where you go over to possess it. (Deuteronomy 4:12-14 WEBPB)

At that time the LORD said to me, “Cut two stone tablets like the first, and come up to me onto the mountain, and make an ark of wood. I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you broke, and you shall put them in the ark.” So I made an ark of acacia wood, and cut two stone tablets like the first, and went up onto the mountain, having the two tablets in my hand. He wrote on the tablets, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spoke to you on the mountain out of the middle of the fire in the day of the assembly; and the LORD gave them to me. I turned and came down from the mountain, and put the tablets in the ark which I had made; and there they are as the LORD commanded me. (Deuteronomy 10:1-5 WEBPB)

The United States is not ok, regardless of whether or not they introduce a Sunday law. It has been a Satanic nation for a long time now.

[TheWay]

I'm an atheist, so I don't know the text of the ten commandments, so I went looking for them, and found this on the Vatican's site.

It's in Portuguese, but I suppose you can find a way of translating it.

https://www.vatican.va/archive/compendiu...ANDAMENTOS

Here's the Ten Commandments in Scripture: 

• When God originally spoke them: https://www.blueletterbible.org/esv/exo/20/1-17/s_70001
  
• Repeated by Moses slightly differently here: https://www.blueletterbible.org/esv/deu/5/1-22/s_158001
  

Here's the Roman Catholic version in English:

• https://www.cam1.org.au/en-us1/Catholic-...mmandments
  
• https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resource/55029/the-ten-commandments
  
• https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-true-ten-commandments
  
• https://stmichael-pl.org/ten-commandments-1
  
• https://www.usccb.org/sites/default/file...chism/498/
  
• https://www.catechist.com/teach-ten-comm...-children/
  
• https://www.archmil.org/ArchMil/offices/...ommand.pdf