The Ten Commandments and the changed Roman Catholic version

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

No one has the authority to alter God's commandments—He makes that unmistakably clear in Scripture. You mentioned being "ordained"—ordained as what, exactly?

You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. (Deuteronomy 4:2)

So... no religious discussion on the origins of the different versions of the Bible then?

About as I expected with heavy "aaaagh" inserted.

So what is the big deal? Why is the Catholics version of the Ten Commandments so important?  

So they dropped a disambiguation in the first two and added one in the last two... I dont see the big deal, and rationally, neither should you.

Here is why.

Do you like The Book of Judith?

I fucking love Judith. She's a contemporary of Yael (IMO), my other favorite biblical female.

Anyway, she is a widow that saved her people from the Assyrian army and beheaded a general. Didn't seduce him and then drive a stake through his head while he slept, but still awesome.

Unfortunately, her story was only in the Bible until the second printing of The KJB. in 1611 or 1612. 

Clearly it is okay for ecumenical councils to drop entire books on the grounds "they're not divinely inspired," but a previous ecumenical body's decision CAN'T decide on The St. Augustine Division why?

What makes it okay for Protestants to get together and streamline the text, e.g., very humanly decide on the words of god, but not okay for the Catholics to do it 1100 years earlier? And many times thereafter. Seems pretty damn arbitrary and with an ulterior motive. 

I see you use the World English Bible, which derives from The American Standard Bible which derives from... drumroll... The King James Bible.

So you should probably quit citing the Bible based on the Bible based on the version that subjectively threw out the word of god if you want to keep consistency in this argument.

Just kidding, do whatever. But know you're not really doing justice to word of christianity by nitpicking divisions to rally people against the Catholic interpretation. So much more egregious liberties have been taken with the narrative, like much of Islam.

So, is your good news here to yell endlessly through an evangelical megaphone or what?

* And I am only technically ordained, which means at one point I filled out an online form to do a friends heathen wedding.  But I took my 5 minute ordination process VERY SERIOUS, look how much I know about all religions!

[ArMaP]

Here's the Roman Catholic version in English:

Those links show different versions, mostly the simplified catechism version for children.

This is the one that looks like a faithful (no pun intended) version of the one I found in the Vatican's site (and you don't get more Roman Catholic than the Vatican, right?).

https://www.usccb.org/sites/default/file...chism/498/

[quintessentone]

God refers to them as the Ten Commandments multiple times in Scripture. Other passages may make it more clear to you which Ten Commandments the Lord was speaking of, and it certainly wasn't those in Exodus 34:10-26, although some of the Ten Commandments are repeated there.

The LORD said to Moses, “Write these words; for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” He was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread, nor drank water. He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. (Exodus 34:27-28 WEBPB)

The LORD spoke to you out of the middle of the fire: you heard the voice of words, but you saw no form; you only heard a voice. He declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even the ten commandments. He wrote them on two stone tablets. The LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and ordinances, that you might do them in the land where you go over to possess it. (Deuteronomy 4:12-14 WEBPB)

At that time the LORD said to me, “Cut two stone tablets like the first, and come up to me onto the mountain, and make an ark of wood. I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you broke, and you shall put them in the ark.” So I made an ark of acacia wood, and cut two stone tablets like the first, and went up onto the mountain, having the two tablets in my hand. He wrote on the tablets, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spoke to you on the mountain out of the middle of the fire in the day of the assembly; and the LORD gave them to me. I turned and came down from the mountain, and put the tablets in the ark which I had made; and there they are as the LORD commanded me. (Deuteronomy 10:1-5 WEBPB)

The United States is not ok, regardless of whether or not they introduce a Sunday law. It has been a Satanic nation for a long time now.

Wow, really...calling the U.S. a Satanic nation? Is that your goal here? You are showing more of yourself and of how you use religion/scripture to try to control and manipulate. Pope Leo XIV will change all of that manipulation very soon, I hope.

BTW, the Bible does not specifically detail the exact words/phrases God revealed to Moses' mind to carve into stone.

So here we have yet another questionable interpretation of God's word/will that must be questioned. The same as with Jesus' teachings which even his disciples sometimes could not understand or comprehend.

[UltraBudgie]

So... no religious discussion on the origins of the different versions of the Bible then?

meh if you like though i don't think that is the op's focus

and your argument about gradual aramaic loanword rewriting and retranslation of the ot was weaksauce. iirc the very few examples of aramaic in the ot are things like "the place known as 'such-and-such in aramaic'" and a quote or two

but nice sidelong slam of the quran without citation while simultaneously bemoaning divisiveness and nitpicking haha

Wow, really...calling the U.S. a Satanic nation? Is that your goal here? You are showing more of yourself and of how you use religion/scripture to try to control and manipulate. Pope Leo XIV will change all of that manipulation very soon, I hope.

quint tbf america can look pretty damn satanic its a matter of perspective wrt secularity

here are some nice quotes from leo abt war i think you'll like as you are hippie like me i think haha: https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/pope-leo-on-war

[quintessentone]

meh if you like though i don't think that is the op's focus

and your argument about gradual aramaic loanword rewriting and retranslation of the ot was weaksauce. iirc the very few examples of aramaic in the ot are things like "the place known as 'such-and-such in aramaic'" and a quote or two

but nice sidelong slam of the quran without citation while simultaneously bemoaning divisiveness and nitpicking haha


quint tbf america can look pretty damn satanic its a matter of perspective wrt secularity

here are some nice quotes from leo abt war i think you'll like as you are hippie like me i think haha: https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/pope-leo-on-war

You bet I liked it. Peace and love.

"“Let us reject the Manichean notions so typical of that mindset of violence that divides the world into those who are good and those who are evil,” Leo said. 

 The word “Manichean” nowadays is understood to mean, roughly, black-and-white thinking that sees people as good or evil. But it comes from a historical religion called Manicheaism, espoused by a man called Mani, dating back to the Sasanian Empire in the 3rd century AD. Dualist in nature, Manichaeism elevated the belief in a struggle between good and evil, light and darkness, to a religious worldview, believing that existence itself is a war between these two forces. The Church designated the religion a heresy, in part, I assume, because it was a rival religion, but also on theological grounds that are interesting. Put simply, Christianity maintained that evil was simply the absence of good, not an entity in itself, much less a person, people or faction. "

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Hey @The Way, you need to understand your faith better.

[Bootless]

At that time the LORD said to me, “Cut two stone tablets like the first, and come up to me onto the mountain, and make an ark of wood. I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you broke, and you shall put them in the ark.” So I made an ark of acacia wood, and cut two stone tablets like the first, and went up onto the mountain, having the two tablets in my hand. He wrote on the tablets, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spoke to you on the mountain out of the middle of the fire in the day of the assembly; and the LORD gave them to me. I turned and came down from the mountain, and put the tablets in the ark which I had made; and there they are as the LORD commanded me. (Deuteronomy 10:1-5 WEBPB)

The United States is not ok, regardless of whether or not they introduce a Sunday law. It has been a Satanic nation for a long time now.

Some problems:
What human language was spoken by the LORD?
What script was used to write them down?

Now a Young Earth Creationist believing that Earth was created in 6 days, may well assume that the Language and script would be Hebrew. There is no evidence that Hebrew existed in the 1400-1200 B.C. time period. So was it Egyptian with hieroglyphics, or proto Phoenician, or Akkadian with Cuneiform script (earliest known Semitic language, 3rd Millennium B.C.) ?

The states in the U.S. which are mandating 10 commandments displayed in schools and court rooms seem to be the Protestant version, so you shouldn't have any gripes about that.

So how do these commandments start? "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt ..." What about the people who didn't come out of Egypt? Are you suggesting that they are bound by a covenant that they were not a party to?

Paul wrote what in Galatians? Circumcision was given as a sign of the Abrahamic covenant. The Law came 430 years after. If the Christians claim the Abraham covenant through the "seed" Christ, and yet hold circumcision to be optional or even counter to the covenant, then how pray tell, can Christians be held to a covenant which they are not a party to?

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The thing about the U.S. is that it was founded as secular, with no stated favored religion. Freedom to choose or not choose. That freedom and liberty is being eroded before our very eyes, Executive Order to weed out "Anti-Christian Bias" puts Christianity in a special class as protected, not any other religion protected.

If satan(job description) is obstructing the erosion of founding freedoms, such as through lawsuits then shouldn't we embrace that? I assume though that you view Satan as a person who is leading the "fake Christians" to persecute the "real Christians".

[Creaky]

“You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.” (Deuteronomy 4:2; see also: Deuteronomy 12:32, Proverbs 30:5-6; Matthew 5:17-20)

To this day the Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church claims authority to be able to change both “the times” and “the law” (see the prophecy in Daniel 7:25. This is clearly manifested in their changing of the Ten Commandments—the complete removal of the 2nd commandment on idolatry, the changing of the 4th commandment to “The Lord’s Day”, meaning [Sun]day, and to maintain 10, the splitting of the 10th commandment in two, becoming the 9th and 10th.

See below a comparison between the Bible's list of the Ten Commandments and the Roman Catholic changed version:
Which commandments should we obey, those of a man or those of God (Acts 5:29)?

As Jesus once rebuked the Pharisees and scribes: “Why do you also disobey the commandment of God because of your tradition?” “You have made the commandment of God void because of your tradition.” Just as Isaiah prophesied of the people of Israel before the siege of Jerusalem, so it is today: “This people draws near with their mouth and honours me with their lips, but they have removed their heart far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which has been taught.” “And they worship me in vain, teaching as doctrine rules made by men.” (Matthew 15:1-9 and Isaiah 29:13)

Please stop it with this dumb ignorant christianity 
Christians are not subject to the laws of Moses given to the Jews
New wine in old wine skins, such dumb theology 

please stop with the ludicrous bible teaching

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

meh if you like though i don't think that is the op's focus

and your argument about gradual aramaic loanword rewriting and retranslation of the ot was weaksauce. iirc the very few examples of aramaic in the ot are things like "the place known as 'such-and-such in aramaic'" and a quote or two

but nice sidelong slam of the quran without citation while simultaneously bemoaning divisiveness and nitpicking haha

Needs clarification then.

Yeah, there's not much Aramaic and like two Persian Loan Words, but then again, for the scriptilure started mostly in Hebrew the first complete versions, like the Codex Sinaiticus and The Septuagint, are in Greek.

So a more accurate language lineage would be a little in Paleo-Hebrew, then Hebrew during exile, then the little bits of Aramaic and Persian in the post exilic period, But then Hellenistic period really changed it up and Hebrew died for centuries. 

I didn't necessarily intend to say the role of Aramaic or Persian was to do anything but date it. And it was just speculation that maybe by the time Greek became Latin the transliteration had made the first two redundant. More rhetorical speculation. But really the crux of that point was saying social attitudes towards iconography and newly popularized temperance played a role in The St. Augustine division.

And sorry about the Islam slight...

So here's some of the more noted change, and can provide citation. They change a lot.

The angels doubt Adams creation.
God will mislead.
No crucifixion of Christ.
Says all previous religions were distorted by humans except Islam... 

But to their credit, and ironically, they did away with original sin and made Adam eat the apple too, but then religious hazmat robes and lower class existence kinda fucked that up.

[Maxmars]

No one has the authority to alter God's commandments—He makes that unmistakably clear in Scripture. You mentioned being "ordained"—ordained as what, exactly?

You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. (Deuteronomy 4:2)

Contextually, God's commandments are Gods...

Changing them for whatever reason is fraught with the hazard of sin.
(Any reason to do so changes by human hubris.)

Translation is a hazard,
Time is a hazard,
Man is a hazard.

However, it is also curious that a direct admonishing to changing the text (the word of God) was given directly and on the spot to the transcribers themselves, the inspired souls who carried the Word into human life. 

I have seen it conjectured that some scribes may have succumbed to the temptation of making "the Word" conform, or feel more organic to the gestalt of their time.

Troubling?  Not really... we're learning.

If the Word is allowed to speak to the Heart... it becomes impossible to corrupt it...
you can only deafen your 'listeners' to the melody behind the song.

[Byrd]

here are some nice quotes from leo abt war i think you'll like as you are hippie like me i think haha: https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/pope-leo-on-war

I like that guy...and I'm not even Catholic!