The Ten Commandments and the changed Roman Catholic version

[TheWay]

“You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.” (Deuteronomy 4:2; see also: Deuteronomy 12:32, Proverbs 30:5-6; Matthew 5:17-20)

To this day the Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church claims authority to be able to change both “the times” and “the law” (see the prophecy in Daniel 7:25. This is clearly manifested in their changing of the Ten Commandments—the complete removal of the 2nd commandment on idolatry, the changing of the 4th commandment to “The Lord’s Day”, meaning [Sun]day, and to maintain 10, the splitting of the 10th commandment in two, becoming the 9th and 10th.

See below a comparison between the Bible's list of the Ten Commandments and the Roman Catholic changed version:


Which commandments should we obey, those of a man or those of God (Acts 5:29)?

As Jesus once rebuked the Pharisees and scribes: “Why do you also disobey the commandment of God because of your tradition?” “You have made the commandment of God void because of your tradition.” Just as Isaiah prophesied of the people of Israel before the siege of Jerusalem, so it is today: “This people draws near with their mouth and honours me with their lips, but they have removed their heart far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which has been taught.” “And they worship me in vain, teaching as doctrine rules made by men.” (Matthew 15:1-9 and Isaiah 29:13)

[UltraBudgie]

stahp or i'll throw a pomegranate at you

[quintessentone]

stahp or i'll throw a pomegranate at you

Pomegranates stain clothes in a big way, so will you be cutting it in half or quarters first before flinging it?

[Byrd]

“You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.” (Deuteronomy 4:2; see also: Deuteronomy 12:32, Proverbs 30:5-6; Matthew 5:17-20)

To this day the Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church claims authority to be able to change both “the times” and “the law” (see the prophecy in Daniel 7:25. This is clearly manifested in their changing of the Ten Commandments—the complete removal of the 2nd commandment on idolatry, the changing of the 4th commandment to “The Lord’s Day”, meaning [Sun]day, and to maintain 10, the splitting of the 10th commandment in two, becoming the 9th and 10th.

See below a comparison between the Bible's list of the Ten Commandments and the Roman Catholic changed version:
[Image: https://i.imgur.com/4CsN47w.jpeg]

Which commandments should we obey, those of a man or those of God (Acts 5:29)?

As Jesus once rebuked the Pharisees and scribes: “Why do you also disobey the commandment of God because of your tradition?” “You have made the commandment of God void because of your tradition.” Just as Isaiah prophesied of the people of Israel before the siege of Jerusalem, so it is today: “This people draws near with their mouth and honours me with their lips, but they have removed their heart far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which has been taught.” “And they worship me in vain, teaching as doctrine rules made by men.” (Matthew 15:1-9 and Isaiah 29:13)

I think you will resolve this if I point out some of the original Bible history.

This chapter (Exodus) is Jewish in origin.  The Jews have said that the "10 Commandments" (the word in the Torah is actually "statements" and not Commandments) and they are said to be the summary of what the Torah is about (https://www.chabad.org/library/article_c...ry-Day.htm)

And in that section, depending on how you divide the statements, there are 13 or 14 of them. However, the Jews say that these Statements are not the Commandments and that there are 613 Commandments (one entire book full of them.)

NOW... the Bible was put together from many manuscripts (it wasn't something that fell from heaven) 

The first Bible is the Catholic Bible (The list of books included in the Catholic Bible was established as canon by the Council of Rome in 382) and from there we get the oldest known Bible (in Latin -- it's the Catholic Bible) called the Vulgate.  The Vulgate is still around and may be read in its original Latin.

When the Bible was first compiled, Exodus and Deuteronomy BOTH had the "10 Commandments" in them, but with some differences in each.  The Council left both versions in (https://www.chabad.org/library/article_c...dments.htm)  Jewish rabbis explain that the Exodus version is the one before Moses broke the tablets and that Deuteronomy is the revised, later version on the second set of tablets.

The original Bible has no chapters and verses.  It was just a series of books that could be read (like reading Lord of the Rings).  Each book finally was put into chapters by Stephen Langton, the Catholic Archbishop of Canterbury sometime about 1215 AD.  

(There weren't any Protestants around.  The first Protestant was Martin Luther (1483-1546)

Verses got numbered in 1551 (https://ehrmanblog.org/when-did-the-bibl...nd-verses/) by this guy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Estienne) who was born Catholic and converted to Protestantism late in his life.

Nowhere in the Bible is a statement that there are the 10 Commandments.  Moses comes down from Sinai with "the tablets of the law" and modern illustrations show 10 items, but it could have been any number of them written on the stone tablets.

So why are the commandments different for Protestants and Catholics?  It's just a matter of usage.  BOTH versions were created by Catholics -- St. Origen ( c. 185 – c. 253) created a numbering system that many Protestant and Orthodox churches use today. St. Augustine (354-430 AD) used a numbering system in the fifth century that Catholics and Lutherans tend to use. (https://portlanddiocese.org/news/dear-fa...stant-ones)



And if you're worried about the Bible remaining unchanged, then you need to go back to the Catholic Bible.  Martin Luther (10 November 1483 – 18 February 1546) was the guy who changed the Bible, threw out some of the original books, and so forth. (https://steppesoffaith-56895.medium.com/...en%20times).

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

“You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.” (Deuteronomy 4:2; see also: Deuteronomy 12:32, Proverbs 30:5-6; Matthew 5:17-20)

To this day the Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church claims authority to be able to change both “the times” and “the law” (see the prophecy in Daniel 7:25. This is clearly manifested in their changing of the Ten Commandments—the complete removal of the 2nd commandment on idolatry, the changing of the 4th commandment to “The Lord’s Day”, meaning [Sun]day, and to maintain 10, the splitting of the 10th commandment in two, becoming the 9th and 10th.

See below a comparison between the Bible's list of the Ten Commandments and the Roman Catholic changed version:
[Image: https://i.imgur.com/4CsN47w.jpeg]

Which commandments should we obey, those of a man or those of God (Acts 5:29)?

As Jesus once rebuked the Pharisees and scribes: “Why do you also disobey the commandment of God because of your tradition?” “You have made the commandment of God void because of your tradition.” Just as Isaiah prophesied of the people of Israel before the siege of Jerusalem, so it is today: “This people draws near with their mouth and honours me with their lips, but they have removed their heart far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which has been taught.” “And they worship me in vain, teaching as doctrine rules made by men.” (Matthew 15:1-9 and Isaiah 29:13)

This seems like an ancient Protestant vs. Catholic difference of interpretation with some accuracy. 

The latter went with St. Augustine (centuries before the former), and the Bible never explicitly numbered the commandments, so the 5th century version was likely to remove one of the first two to add one specific for not coveting the neighbor's wife. 

Apparently...  Men having sex with their neighbors wives was a bigger concern to Rome than Byzantine art or stained glass reliefs of Christ, prophets, or canonized saints, which were not considered graven images or idolatry. 

During Augustine, the Sun and Moon still bore witness in crucifixion depictions, albeit in an adjacent (but continued) culture, which stayed more pagan. Maybe their attitudes towards sex still had too much pagan carry-over? 

In any case, they combined the idolatry ones to split up the the coveteth ones and made art for God less blasphemous in the process. 

Nothing worth starting a conflict or greater war over...




ETA: 

I'm not trying to give you crap. Let's have the real theological discussion over an exchange of one-sided proselytizing. I'm ordained and everything. Love talking interpretation of scripture from all angles 

I genuinely want to discuss the morphology of iconography in early Christianity, their changing social values (including with sex), and life in a culturally distinct, majority Christian, Roman and Byzantine societies. 

It is true The Jews and Protestants number and word The Ten Commandments slightly different than the Catholics, and it could be an interesting discussion as to why they did that.

What if it's mostly about art and sex?

[Bootless]

Which commandments should we obey, those of a man or those of God (Acts 5:29)?

As Jesus once rebuked the Pharisees and scribes: “Why do you also disobey the commandment of God because of your tradition?” “You have made the commandment of God void because of your tradition.” Just as Isaiah prophesied of the people of Israel before the siege of Jerusalem, so it is today: “This people draws near with their mouth and honours me with their lips, but they have removed their heart far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which has been taught.” “And they worship me in vain, teaching as doctrine rules made by men.” (Matthew 15:1-9 and Isaiah 29:13)

Oh for crying out loud! Where do the words Ten Commandments show up in the Exodus story?

Exodus 34:28

Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.

What are those commandments? Read them in verses 10-26.
They command some very genocidal behavior. Command, not suggest.
There is genocide happening today in that "promised land". Do you think that's okay?

Do you think the United States is okay as long as no national Sunday Law is passed? Will you tolerate and go along with any Christian Nationalism as long as you personally are allowed to keep the 7th day Sabbath?

I would rather follow man made Geneva Convention laws, and International Criminal Court, and UN Universal Human Rights declarations, than anything written in that library of books written by men called the Bible.



James Russell Lowell - The Present Crisis

...
So the Evil's triumph sendeth, with a terror and a chill,        
Under continent to continent, the sense of coming ill,          
And the slave, where'er he cowers, feels his sympathies with God  
In hot tear-drops ebbing earthward, to be drunk up by the sod,        
Till a corpse crawls round unburied, delving in the nobler clod.
        
For mankind are one in spirit, and an instinct bears along,   
Round the earth's electric circle, the swift flash of right or wrong;  
Whether conscious or unconscious, yet Humanity's vast frame        
Through its ocean-sundered fibres feels the gush of joy or shame;—           
In the gain or loss of one race all the rest have equal claim. 
 ...
 

[Bootless]

stahp or i'll throw a pomegranate at you

That may be considered pagan behavior.

The myth of Persephone, the goddess of the underworld, prominently features her consumption of pomegranate seeds, requiring her to spend a certain number of months in the underworld every year. The number of seeds and therefore months vary. During the months that Persephone sits on the throne of the underworld beside her husband Hades, her mother Demeter mourns and no longer gives fertility to the earth. This was an ancient Greek explanation for the seasons.

-wikipedia: Pomegranate

[DontTreadOnMe]

it is true The Jews and Protestants number and word The Ten Commandments slightly different than the Catholics, and it could be an interesting discussion as to why they did that.

How much of the difference was due to language differences, and the culture and times.
Also, the Jewish religion is the oldest of three, Catholicism next.  Has to be some differences due to that.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

That too.

One of the harder things is getting the affirmed language timeline down due lack of scientifically dated evidence. 

The majority of the Old Testament was written in The 2nd Temple under The Persians. It starts off Hebrew, then picks up some Aramaic and Persian loan words simultaneously. (See Daniel and Ezra for examples of Aramaic), and other languages began to replace Hebrew versions around 2nd Century BCE. With the earliest Greek version being The Septuagint in the late 3rd century, and full Aramaic version coming centuries later (The Syriac Peshitta), despite books being partially written in Aramaic going back to the 2nd Temple. 

Latin Vulgate didn't come until the Byzantine/Roman era. Meaning until after Constantine gave everyone normalized Christianity and The Byzantine part the name of their Capital City. So the Catholic version had been transliterated through several languages already, and that could have played a role in rendering the first two linguistically redundant.

Everything I've read points to the interpretation of St. Augustine, who felt that way as well. The St. Augustine Division comes from his essay "Questions on the Heptateuch." 

It is just my personal opinion that they wanted to insert a bit of sexual restraint culturally, more in accordance with biblical teachings, break the lingering Hellenistic behaviors (of the Byzantine part of the Roman Empire) and splitting up the tenth commandment was a socially influenced way to add emphasis to sanctity.

* Sorry to edit both comments so damn much, there is a lot transcultural stuff to sort out in the early christian world. Done now.

[ArMaP]

I'm an atheist, so I don't know the text of the ten commandments, so I went looking for them, and found this on the Vatican's site.

It's in Portuguese, but I suppose you can find a way of translating it.

https://www.vatican.va/archive/compendiu...ANDAMENTOS