Putin's North Korean Soldiers

[Oldcarpy2]

None of the EU/US/Uk/NATO would have got involved if Yanukovych had not done a U-turn on his election pledge to forge closer links with Western Europe and the EU by rejecting a Ukrainian parliament approved deal with the EU in favour of closer links with Russia - all against the express wishes of the Ukrainian electorate and people.
Of course that had nothing to do with the huge bribe he received from Russia, the benefits of which he is now enjoying in exile in Moscow.

In 2014 The Kremlin armed and funded several Right-Wing Nationalist Militia's to agitate and provoke throughout Luhansk and Donetsk. They targeted Ukrainian government buildings and installations, terrorised non Russian Orthodox Christians and Jews and generally stirred up as much trouble and malcontent as possible.
The Ukrainian government responded harshly, possibly too harsh at times.

Both examples of Russian meddling.
Putin wanted a reaction....and he got it and quite predictably used it as a pretext to justify his invasion. An invasion which in reality is nothing more than a good old fashioned land grab and an attempt to restore some sort of imagined former glory for Mother Russia.

The fact that its all gone tits up and three years down the line its nothing short of a monumental shit show illustrates just how badly he judged things.

As for NATO expansionism; NATO never once actively sought membership from any of the ex-Warsaw Pact nations or former Soviet satellite countries. They CHOSE to approach NATO.
Ever asked yourself why?
Pretty simple really, they'd experienced Russian domination and control before and didn't want to have to endure it again.

Yes. Anyone would think from some posters that Nuland and the CIA had boots on the ground running the revolution against Yanukovych.

In fact, it was the Ukrainian people who, unsurprisingly, had had enough of the corrupt Russian stooge taking them back into Russian hegemony against their wishes.

But, evil US, NATO, Nazis, biolabs, Nuland and on and on it goes...

[sahgwa]

From your Reuters source:

"Psaki also criticized Russian officials' publicizing of the tape as "a new low in Russian tradecraft" and denied Washington was trying to meddle or engineer a particular outcome in Kiev.
"Absolutely not," she said. "It should be no surprise that U.S. officials talk about issues around the world. Of course we do. That's what diplomats do."

So a discussion between two US diplomats.

Anything else?

I am at work- but its a bit of classic US GOV newspeak.  Surely you know by now that anything they say, that the opposite is true-;same goes for most governments.
I have the most issue with ' Psaki denied Washington was trying to meddle or engineer a particular outcome in Kiev.'
You think the Orange revolution so called was truly home grown and in no way fomented or formed by US NGOs? 
Question 2: Do you think this current Ukraine Russia conflict is a proxy war , or is it 100% poor old Ukraine being invaded by big mad Vlad?

[sahgwa]

Yes. Anyone would think from some posters that Nuland and the CIA had boots on the ground running the revolution against Yanukovych.

In fact, it was the Ukrainian people who, unsurprisingly, had had enough of the corrupt Russian stooge taking them back into Russian hegemony against their wishes.

But, evil US, NATO, Nazis, biolabs, Nuland and on and on it goes...

I think he was a Russian stooge but I don't think you focus on the malfeasance of both sides. Only one.  And that gets frustrating, especially when you devolve it 'evil NATO' when no one said such a thing.  It shows your binary simplistic thinking. 
 That's all I am saying, especially when I say have 0 horses in this race.

[sahgwa]

None of the EU/US/Uk/NATO would have got involved if Yanukovych had not done a U-turn on his election pledge to forge closer links with Western Europe and the EU by rejecting a Ukrainian parliament approved deal with the EU in favour of closer links with Russia - all against the express wishes of the Ukrainian electorate and people.
Of course that had nothing to do with the huge bribe he received from Russia, the benefits of which he is now enjoying in exile in Moscow.

In 2014 The Kremlin armed and funded several Right-Wing Nationalist Militia's to agitate and provoke throughout Luhansk and Donetsk. They targeted Ukrainian government buildings and installations, terrorised non Russian Orthodox Christians and Jews and generally stirred up as much trouble and malcontent as possible.
The Ukrainian government responded harshly, possibly too harsh at times.

Both examples of Russian meddling.
Putin wanted a reaction....and he got it and quite predictably used it as a pretext to justify his invasion. An invasion which in reality is nothing more than a good old fashioned land grab and an attempt to restore some sort of imagined former glory for Mother Russia.

The fact that its all gone tits up and three years down the line its nothing short of a monumental shit show illustrates just how badly he judged things.

As for NATO expansionism; NATO never once actively sought membership from any of the ex-Warsaw Pact nations or former Soviet satellite countries. They CHOSE to approach NATO.
Ever asked yourself why?
Pretty simple really, they'd experienced Russian domination and control before and didn't want to have to endure it again.

The funny thing about this conflict is that there are neo nazis on both sides.  
Don't forget about Azov vs Wagner group.
The irony is that Hitler hated Slavs. So the whole thing is fascinating to me from the sidelines.

[quintessentone]

I think he was a Russian stooge but I don't think you focus on the malfeasance of both sides. Only one.  And that gets frustrating, especially when you devolve it 'evil NATO' when no one said such a thing.  It shows your binary simplistic thinking. 
 That's all I am saying, especially when I say have 0 horses in this race.

I am watching N.A.T.O. take steps to start policing the Baltic Sea and they have and will continue to confiscate Russian ships. It's right there in front of all of us. Is NATO at fault because they won't allow Russian ships to cut their undersea cables/commit sabotage, or transport their oil illegally? Is The West at fault for aiding Ukraine when Russia is aided by North Korea, Iran and China?

Are you saying Russia is all alone being threatened by The West and NATO when Russia and North Korea have a new military pact, and China is busy reinforcing their military?

Let's start looking at the wrong doing of both sides.

Russia is running scared so the question now is, will they will escalate this war?

NATO Intel says Russia is giving weapons to NK that are being seen in the Korean peninsula, why is that a problem for South Korea? Why do I believe this, because I listened to several military guys independent blogs who said NK's weapons were old and didn't work and/or their missiles were junk. If that wasn't true, why would Russia need to provide NK with weapons?

NATO Intel says China is providing Russia with most of the resources necessary to ensure Russia remains in the fight, e.g. war materials for production in the defence industry.

Both sides are fueling the war.

[sahgwa]

I am watching N.A.T.O. take steps to start policing the Baltic Sea and they have and will continue to confiscate Russian ships. It's right there in front of all of us. Is it NATO at fault because they won't allow Russian ships to cut their undersea cables/commit sabotage, or transport their oil illegally?

Are you saying Russia is all alone being threatened by The West and NATO when Russia and North Korea have a new military pact, and China is busy reinforcing their military?

Let's start looking at the wrong doing of both sides.

Russia is running scared so the question now is, will they will escalate this war?

NATO Intel says Russia is giving weapons to NK that are being seen in the Korean peninsula, why is that a problem for South Korea?

NATO Intel says China is providing Russia with most of the resources necessary to ensure Russia remains in the fight, e.g. war materials for production in the defence industry.

Both sides are fueling the war.

RE the undersea cables, Ukraine all but admitted fault on one occasion. Did you see this article. At the least it's interesting and most are unfamiliar:

Link to news 2024 aug 14

"Russia Is Running Scared -Will They Escalate" you ask?
I hope we get a peace treaty signed this month.
I want both sides to come to an agreement and stop the killing.

[quintessentone]

RE the undersea cables, Ukraine all but admitted fault on one occasion. Did you see this article. At the least it's interesting and most are unfamiliar:

Link to news 2024 aug 14

"Russia Is Running Scared -Will They Escalate" you ask?
I hope we get a peace treaty signed this month.
I want both sides to come to an agreement and stop the killing.

It's war, is it not expected both sides will spy and try to sabotage each other?

If you listen to Putin, his rhetoric leans to escalation not to peace talks. At least, that is how I am reading him.

[sahgwa]

It's war, is it not expected both sides will spy and try to sabotage each other?

If you listen to Putin, his rhetoric leans to escalation not to peace talks. At least, that is how I am reading him.

I am pleased to see that unlike some others on this thread you are able to take a more nuanced view and appreciate the grey nature of this conflict and how both sides are at fault.  So many like to whitewash the Ukraine as nothing but the innocent victim and Russia as the idiotic bully when it is far far deeper than that. 
I just find it hilarious that any evidence of Ukrainian or god forbid Beloved NATO wrong doing is forgotten or ignored by many here.
I find it funny they would blow up Nordstream on their own .  It is all shades of Operation Gladio (hiring nationalists and fascists in Europe against the USSR in the 'good ol days' )

[quintessentone]

I am pleased to see that unlike some others on this thread you are able to take a more nuanced view and appreciate the grey nature of this conflict and how both sides are at fault.  So many like to whitewash the Ukraine as nothing but the innocent victim and Russia as the idiotic bully when it is far far deeper than that. 
I just find it hilarious that any evidence of Ukrainian or god forbid Beloved NATO wrong doing is forgotten or ignored by many here.
I find it funny they would blow up Nordstream on their own .  It is all shades of Operation Gladio (hiring nationalists and fascists in Europe against the USSR in the 'good ol days' )

What I think I know is that The West and Ukraine are trying to hit Putin where it hurts, his wallet (economy). The poking the bear must be working.

[Creaky]

I am at work- but its a bit of classic US GOV newspeak.  Surely you know by now that anything they say, that the opposite is true-;same goes for most governments.
I have the most issue with ' Psaki denied Washington was trying to meddle or engineer a particular outcome in Kiev.'
You think the Orange revolution so called was truly home grown and in no way fomented or formed by US NGOs? 
Question 2: Do you think this current Ukraine Russia conflict is a proxy war , or is it 100% poor old Ukraine being invaded by big mad Vlad?

Seems everyone from the US denies that the Biden’s and Clinton’s are heavily involved in the Ukrainian corruption.
that it ok for the US to infiltrate a sovereign nation, start a civil war, change a government that supports US interests (Pakistan of late) 
My opinion is the democrats and republicans are so mixed up in Ukraine, that they have to win so the truth is never revealed 

Why do you say the Orange revolution was formed by NGOs, think it was the US government or people with solid ties to the government

The US has no fear of rigging their own election ?, then act like they wouldn’t do it to another country 

Anyway, not sure I believe anything that comes out of the West anymore
And still wanting confirmation NK troops are on the Ukraine frontline 
Those images of captured don’t look Korean