Putin's North Korean Soldiers

[quintessentone]

I don't buy Russia had to invade Ukraine because of NATO expansion. It has always been, and always will be $.

[sahgwa]

I don't buy Russia had to invade Ukraine because of NATO expansion. It has always been, and always will be $.

I didn't say they HAD to, I said they took advantage of the situation, which the US had begun.  They could also from it as defence of Russians in Ukraine, or has everyone forgotten about Kiev shelling it's own citizens in 2014, as well as the very textbook US support of Neonazis in Ukraine for its Color Revolution?
I have no horse in the race but looking at Ukraine as a defenceless nation when in fact it was it's corrupt leadership put in power at the helm, and put there by the US which lead Russia to start a 'Military Operation' in the first place.
If they had let the Ukrainian election of Yanukovych stand, none of this would have happened.
It's meddling and it's a proxy war.
Both sides are at fault.   I am not some random UK/NZ/Australian bystander; I had ex military family working in Kiev, and Romania, and I am also ex military, so I have personal experience of exactly how the USA was meddling which led to this.

[quintessentone]

I didn't say they HAD to, I said they took advantage of the situation, which the US had begun.  They could also from it as defence of Russians in Ukraine, or has everyone forgotten about Kiev shelling it's own citizens in 2014, as well as the very textbook US support of Neonazis in Ukraine for its Color Revolution?
I have no horse in the race but looking at Ukraine as a defenceless nation when in fact it was it's corrupt leadership put in power at the helm, and put there by the US which lead Russia to start a 'Military Operation' in the first place.
If they had let the Ukrainian election of Yanukovych stand, none of this would have happened.
It's meddling and it's a proxy war.
Both sides are at fault.   I am not some random UK/NZ/Australian bystander; I had ex military family working in Kiev, and Romania, and I am also ex military, so I have personal experience of exactly how the USA was meddling which led to this.

Tell us your personal experience of exactly how the USA was meddling which led to this, please.

Maybe you can tell me how the sanctions imposed on Russia since 2014 has no impact in all of this too?

From AI search:

International sanctions have been imposed against Russia and Crimea during the Russo-Ukrainian War by a large number of countries, including the United States, Canada, the European Union, and international organisations following the Russian annexation of Crimea, which began in late February 2014.

And how additional sanctions in early 2024, before Russia's invasion of Ukraine, had no impact in all of this, too, please.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60125659

[sahgwa]

Tell us your personal experience of exactly how the USA was meddling which led to this, please.

Are you familiar with the wikileaks regarding the US State department in Ukraine? 
Here's an ours d'ouevre

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-u...G20140207/

Is that meddling enough for you? If you want I can find more, if I have time. That was a cursory websearch. News Article from 2014

[quintessentone]

Are you familiar with the wikileaks regarding the US State department in Ukraine? 
Here's an ours d'ouevre

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-u...G20140207/

Is that meddling enough for you? If you want I can find more, if I have time. That was a cursory websearch. News Article from 2014

That was in 2013, a lot has happened since then.

Does Zelensky and the Ukrainian people agree that it was the U.S. that instigated recent events, because they've had 11 years to think it over and only after 9 years they then decided it's time to do what the USA wants them to do?

[sahgwa]

That was in 2013, a lot has happened since then.

Does Zelensky and the Ukrainian people agree that it was the U.S. that instigated recent events, because they've had 11 years to think it over and only after 9 years they then decided it's time to do what the USA wants them to do?

Yes, it was a while ago, and it directly led to Russia doing what they did. Its a fairly obvious situation that is muddied by propaganda on both sides.
USA should not have meddled.
Russia should not have invaded
Pretty damn simple. 
But then that's proxy wars. 
'Does (sic) Zelensky and the U. people agree that it was US that instigated recent events?' of course not, you are being disengenious.
They instigated the events (Maidan) that led to these current events. 
And furthermore, Russia has plenty of material wealth, invading Ukraine has nothing to do with that.

[quintessentone]

Yes, it was a while ago, and it directly led to Russia doing what they did. Its a fairly obvious situation that is muddied by propaganda on both sides.
USA should not have meddled.
Russia should not have invaded
Pretty damn simple. 
But then that's proxy wars. 
'Does (sic) Zelensky and the U. people agree that it was US that instigated recent events?' of course not, you are being disengenious.
They instigated the events (Maidan) that led to these current events. 
And furthermore, Russia has plenty of material wealth, invading Ukraine has nothing to do with that.

Russia has plenty of material wealth...now, maybe yes maybe no, it's iffy, but definitely not before the invasion...who is being disingenuous now?

Back in February 2022, before they invaded, they were having economic problems. Starting up factories to build military equipment lifted up the working class...war it appears is good business. Refer to my source above. Where are your sources specific to their historical economic status BTW?

[Oldcarpy2]

Are you familiar with the wikileaks regarding the US State department in Ukraine? 
Here's an ours d'ouevre

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-u...G20140207/

Is that meddling enough for you? If you want I can find more, if I have time. That was a cursory websearch. News Article from 2014

From your Reuters source:

"Psaki also criticized Russian officials' publicizing of the tape as "a new low in Russian tradecraft" and denied Washington was trying to meddle or engineer a particular outcome in Kiev.
"Absolutely not," she said. "It should be no surprise that U.S. officials talk about issues around the world. Of course we do. That's what diplomats do."

So a discussion between two US diplomats.

Anything else?

[Freeborn]

I have to keep it brief but it is a proxy war, because the only reason Russia invaded was due to NATO and in particular US meddling in Ukraine affairs, as well as Ukrainian government bombing it's own citizens of Russian descent in the Eastern provinces.  Of course Russia will use those as excuses to invade, but you have to understand that if Victoria 'fuck the EU' Neuland and her ilk had not been playing at Maidan Colour Revolution Regime Change game, then I highly doubt Russia would have militarily invaded.
It is the very definition of a proxy war, as Russia felt squeezed by NATO expansion, if not on paper, than in deed.

None of the EU/US/Uk/NATO would have got involved if Yanukovych had not done a U-turn on his election pledge to forge closer links with Western Europe and the EU by rejecting a Ukrainian parliament approved deal with the EU in favour of closer links with Russia - all against the express wishes of the Ukrainian electorate and people.
Of course that had nothing to do with the huge bribe he received from Russia, the benefits of which he is now enjoying in exile in Moscow.

In 2014 The Kremlin armed and funded several Right-Wing Nationalist Militia's to agitate and provoke throughout Luhansk and Donetsk. They targeted Ukrainian government buildings and installations, terrorised non Russian Orthodox Christians and Jews and generally stirred up as much trouble and malcontent as possible.
The Ukrainian government responded harshly, possibly too harsh at times.

Both examples of Russian meddling.
Putin wanted a reaction....and he got it and quite predictably used it as a pretext to justify his invasion. An invasion which in reality is nothing more than a good old fashioned land grab and an attempt to restore some sort of imagined former glory for Mother Russia.

The fact that its all gone tits up and three years down the line its nothing short of a monumental shit show illustrates just how badly he judged things.

As for NATO expansionism; NATO never once actively sought membership from any of the ex-Warsaw Pact nations or former Soviet satellite countries. They CHOSE to approach NATO.
Ever asked yourself why?
Pretty simple really, they'd experienced Russian domination and control before and didn't want to have to endure it again.

[quintessentone]

Is Putin running scared (economically) because of Ukraine's use of long range missiles to hit military industrial targets in Russia, and their ability to shoot down his mach 10 missiles? Where will his tanks come from now? How will he pay the working class now? Hmm, let me think about that one. He is blaming the U.S.A., U.K. and any other country supplying weapons to Ukraine. But he really is calling out just the U.S.A.



I mean really, from this article, it looks like Putin started escalating this missile threat first.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cdj3kmel349t

He can dish it out but can't take it?

Ukraine military has shot down Russia's mach 10 missiles.
 

"The enemy's mission is to sow panic and create chaos. However, in the northern operational zone [including Kyiv], everything is under complete control," said Gen. Serhiy Naev, commander of the joint forces of the armed forces.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-ru...-1.6844576