President Trump’s One Big Beautiful Bill officially passes the House

[Ignorant]

Oh noes, not trillions with a "T" what will we do. I have been hearing that worst case scenarios with some factual basis of the national debt fear since my childhood, it's never materialized in my 60 years and rarely has in America's history.

...

One can recognize the national debt is real, while also realizing politicians and Wall Street play off of and manipulate those concerns and have made trillions collectively over the years 

So begone with your overt paranoid financial calamity concerns... why prescribe to the mantra the TPTB use to manipulate the masses

Pay lots of interest is what you'll do. Debt isn't necessarily calamitous, but it is expensive. If you ever went into personal debt (surely you have), you know this to be true. The US paid 1.13T in interest on its debt in 2024. That's $3000 per capita.

For perspective below is the earliest I could find national debt worries mentioned. Regardless of what I think economics isn't my forte  I generally listen to what the mover and shakers the power brokers suggest.

In this case I imagine Warren has a better grasp of the situation than the most anybody on Deny Ignorance. 

Buffett said, “I could end the deficit in five minutes. You just pass a law that says that any time there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election.”

Heres the earliest concerns over the national debt
 
Warren Buffett’s Financial Plan To Eliminate America’s Debt in 5 Minutes

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/warren-bu...13178.html

What's your point here? I want to make sure I understand.

[putnam6]

Pay lots of interest is what you'll do. Debt isn't necessarily calamitous, but it is expensive. If you ever went into personal debt (surely you have), you know this to be true. The US paid 1.13T in interest on its debt in 2024. That's $3000 per capita.

What's your point here? I want to make sure I understand.

Haha, thanks for reminding me, but there are ways to mitigate  debt personally and nationally 

Yeah, all Im suggesting Ive heard this since the Oil Crisis in 73, Ive gone from 9 years old to worrying about my grandkids. 

Forgot the quote and link..

https://x.com/i/grok/share/CQrkZ5pBaNUZOhiyKiL0dn4Oo

Concerns about the American national debt date back to the founding of the United States. The earliest notable mention emerged during the Revolutionary War (1775–1783), when the Continental Congress began borrowing heavily to fund the war effort. By 1783, the debt was around $43 million, and there was significant worry about how to manage it. Alexander Hamilton, in his 1781 letters and later as Treasury Secretary, expressed concerns about the debt's impact on national credit and stability, advocating for a structured repayment plan. His 1790 "First Report on the Public Credit" warned that excessive debt could undermine the new nation's economic foundation, emphasizing the need for federal assumption of state debts to maintain credibility.
This sentiment was echoed by others, like Thomas Jefferson, who in 1786 wrote about the dangers of public debt, fearing it could burden future generations. These early debates highlight a recurring anxiety about fiscal responsibility that has persisted ever since.

[Ignorant]

Of course concerns date back to the founding fathers. Who wouldn't be concerned about going into debt? It's expensive. Take it too far and you might have to default, which in America's case would be cataclysmic. I'm not saying I'm worried about that, but rising bond yields (meaning it's getting more expensive for the US government to borrow) and isolationist economic policy are reasons to be careful about deficit spending. Why the latter matters to your national debt I can explain on request. You can also look it up or ask AI (prompt: For the US, how does isolationist economic policy affect its government's ability to borrow money cheaply?).

When we try to figure out if, for example, Trump's 2016 corporate tax cuts (which would be extended by this new bill) are good economic policy, the resulting increase in the debt is part of the equation. It's basic cost-benefit analysis. The benefits are that corporations have more money to spend (which ideally would mean more jobs and/or higher wages), and the cost is an increase in the national debt. Even if you're not concerned this will cause a crisis, it's still a real cost. It will cost the American taxpayer money. The question isn't "will it cause a crisis?", it's "is it worth it?"

Typically governments go into debt to make investments, which can help prop up the economy. Cutting corporate taxes can be fine, when unemployment is a problem or companies are not investing enough, usually during a recession (in my view there are better ways to stimulate the economy but that aside). And then when you get out of the recession you can reduce the deficit again so that the debt doesn't get out of control. Trump's tax cuts in 2016 were entirely mistimed with that in mind. Why they need to be extended now is also unclear.

What I'm trying to get at is that the cost of these policies matters. You can dismiss concerns about a crisis, but there's still a cost. Is it worth it? That depends on the benefits. In my opinion, they are dubious.

[AngryOldBrewer]

Thanks! Really helps.

Alright, just adding some clarification. Fully tipped employees will still be taxed for things like SS, state and local. Federal taxes, the ones included in the BBB are not completely gone. Instead there is a 1 time deduction of 12.5k single and 25k filing jointly (on tips). States that have a lower wage for fully tipped employees (Arizona for example only has to pay $2.13 an hour) get the same deduction. This expires for some reason at the end of the Trump term. Guess if you don't vote for him again, you will loose the deduction ability.

[DBCowboy]

I'm glad this passed.  I think the left is so against it because it will actually benefit Americans and they'll lose their base, especially if people are doing well or even better.

[putnam6]

Glad it passed, but I'll be honest, not a fan of the theatrics chanting USA, USA any more than Cory Booker's marathon speech.

Quit patting yourself on the back, for doing the base requirement for your damn job. 

There is a whole helluva lot that the Republican House and Senate are sitting on that needs to get done.





Insider Paper

@TheInsiderPaper

BREAKING  House Republicans erupt in cheers after Trump’s signature 'big beautiful bill' passes, chanting “USA!” on the floor. YEAs - 218 NAYs - 214

[RichardHurt]

I'm glad this passed.  I think the left is so against it because it will actually benefit Americans and they'll lose their base, especially if people are doing well or even better.

I am glad it passed just as you are, but how does increasing our debt help any American exactly? Even FOX and NEWSMAX commentators are questioning the same thing. Adding more to the debt after negations and then it passes the house to hit the desk raises many alarms.

[rickymouse]

Even though there is a limit on the tax on tips and overtime, it will make it much better for a lot of people.  I know from personal experience years ago that doing overtime could throw you into a higher bracket if you were lower middle class.  You're checks were not very much bigger with the overtime, if you were trying to pay off bills or wanted to save for a car or home, working overtime sometimes could not supply you with much extra money after the government got their raise.

If people could just take that higher overtime benefit and use it to pay off their debt, it could make their life better and they would feel they were getting out of the hole quicker for their extra time working.

With the extra buffer from Social security tax break, we will be able to pay less taxes when taking money out of the 401.  Between the wife and I our income is right about at that maximum right now before they start taxing us.  We paid a lot of taxes over the years we worked.  We are now making what we did years ago on social security, but that money doesn't go very far anymore with inflation over the last twenty some years and everything going up so much...like insurances and property taxes and utilities and heating bills. 

I would presume that they will still take out social security and medicare deductions on the overtime, instead of excluding that from social security wages when you apply for social security.  If not, then you will have less retirement income.  Same with tips, I presume it just applies to federal income tax, not social security....yet a lot of people who get cash tips don't claim it on social security anyway...so their social security checks are low.  They will probably live long enough to collect it, they should pay social security on most of it.  With people paying tips with credit cards or debit cards, that goes into the payroll system, it is harder to get away with not paying taxes these days than when everyone paid with cash.  So now they want way more tip percentage in society, because it is taxed.  I can make a nice meal for the price we pay for a tip on two fish fries and coffee for the wife and I in a restaurant.  I can get a nice whitefish filet for about seven bucks, plenty for the two of us to get stuffed, and french fries from scratch cost about a buck including homemade tarter sauce and ketchup an of course, coffee brewed in our Mr. Coffee only costs about six cents a cup the way we make it...including cream and sugar.  It is three fifty for coffee now when you go out and eat...plus tip.  frozen Cod and pollock loins are also cheaper than whitefish. 

I think that if it works out as I think it is going to work out, people may go out and eat more often now since maybe the tip percentage might go down.  And because people will have more left to their paycheck from the overtime tax gone, it will also help the restaurants too. 

It will not really effect us that much from all of this, but we will probably benefit enough to actually eat out a couple more times a year...right now, we tend to eat out around once a month or so, and the reason is that the food we make at home is way better tasting and healthier than in almost all the restaurants around here that we can afford to go to on Social security.  The wife does go to the senior center for lunch with her friends about once every other week, seven bucks, and she also does a monday lunch with her girl friends almost every week at a local small restaurant, that usually runs around thirteen bucks for a half a sandwich with a cup of homemade soup and a a tip.  That is entertainment, not food really, it is a social event.  which is not part of our food budget, it is in the entertainment budget.

Hopefully the bigger companies start investing more money into making factories and expanding now that they will know they have more money to do so.  With the value of our dollar dropping against others, it makes things produced in America more competitive, and also if there is an import tax it will help level the playing field for domestic production again.  If more businesses expand, then more jobs that pay a living wage are created.  I personally would rather work in a factory than work in a job where you have to compete with others to make more money, a job where you do not have to always be thinking about more commission or deceiving others to buy things they really do not need sucks, I did sales for a while, I would not play the game, I talked customers into buying cheaper things that were  better in quality than the more expensive stuff.  Capitalism sucks...but in those jobs, since I actually sold them only what they needed, I did great, I sold lots  more than others and people would come in and ask for me since I knew so many different professions, I would explain how to do things.....I took time off from building every so often and worked in a store for a year....nice taking a break from your business, even working overtime in those stores, it was only half as much hours as my contractor business.

As far as cuts in medicaid, I see a lot of people going to the ER often since there is no copay on medicaid.  The hospital needs lots of these low paying medicaid people to pay the bills too.  I read some articles on how hospitals pay more for technology than they do for help in the hospitals now, are all those MRI's, CAT scans, and expensive tests really necessary?  Now to go see your primary doctor, you need an appointment a month down the road, your doctor who knows you and knows when you are not feeling or looking good can't see you, you have to go to the clinic and see a physician assistant from a doctor who does not know you, and they do not know how you are when you feel good, so they prescribe more tests which actually are just a snapshot at the given time.  I remember when you went to your primary doctor, you could go in after scheduled appointments at four, spent over a half hour with the doctor who just looked at you and talked to you and could help you get better...now they have laptops and the computer asks the questions the doctor has to ask.  Technology is not always relevant, the doctor is often sent down the wrong branch and asks irrelevant questions which lead to an improper diagnosis. 

Your past history does not mean it is a reoccurring event, I hear about people now having no luck with doctors, they had kidney stones a year before, then when they got a torn muscle from an injury in their abdomen from hauling a big generator over a pile of sand at a job site, they called it kidney stones...Yeah, two weeks later after a couple of clinic visits he got to his primary doctor who played soccer with him years before and he ordered a scan and it showed a partially ripped tendon....this is just one example of how doctors are set astray by technology, by seeing something previously and then assuming it was the same thing when all evidence showed it was a job injury, even his boss was helping him carry that generator when he had the accident and went down into the dugout around the new house....  This is just one incident, I have known of lots of people who had things like this happen and proper treatment is not evaluated.

I think the whole medical industry should evaluate what they are doing, you do not always need the exact diagnosis, and experienced doctor knows that the same treatment can often treat many diseases, the extra tests to find the actual microbe is not necessary all the time and often a person can have both a viral infection and a microbial infection, treating the microbial infection with an antibiotic can give the immune system more power to fight the viral infection

Ok, done ranting, seen too much money being wasted on medical diagnosis and treatment.  I get a free senior checkup once a year with my doctor, I don't know what I am going to be doing ten months from now, no thanks for that checkup where they cannot even do any diagnosing if you have the flu or something else wrong with you, it is just a physical.  So I do not do that anymore, and those poop tests, the actual correct result is only about fifty percent accurate, and they are not cheap.  False positives and negatives do occur, with most being false positives...so they schedule an appointment to stick something up your butt because you ate liver and onions or a big steak a week earlier....those tests are not cheap.  They should give you a flier and force everyone to read it telling them what not to eat ...like meat or even citrus before the poop test. 

NOW I am done ranting.  I have lost faith in the medical field over the last twenty years.

[DBCowboy]

I am glad it passed just as you are, but how does increasing our debt help any American exactly? Even FOX and NEWSMAX commentators are questioning the same thing. Adding more to the debt after negations and then it passes the house to hit the desk raises many alarms.

Dunno, not an economist.

But if the leftists hated it, it's probably a good thing for people.

[RichardHurt]

Dunno, not an economist.

But if the leftists hated it, it's probably a good thing for people.

So seeing a good portion of your own countrymen angry and sick pleases you? I am fairly certain that one of the goals in this life is to be a representative of the good and kindness humans have.
Your statement is the very reason why we are in this crappy predicament and your continued application of this does absolutely nothing to remedy the burden of debt on your own grandchildren.
I will go ahead and say. Shame on you DB, you should know better then to give in the divisive nature being groomed in todays society.
Not cool man