Has Ukraine collapsed

[Maxmars]

There is no future reality which includes the erasure of Ukraine, or Ukrainians, as a people.

Given that notion... 

The prevailing assumption, perhaps even "a given" is that where Russians forces "are now," is now "theirs."

Is that so?

[WallFlowerActive]

If you manage to get anysort of straight answer, I'll be rather surprised.

He can't answer for very obvious reasons.

And it's laughable.  

Why doesn’t the west give the Ukraine loads of our best conventional weapons and turn the Donbas into a moonscape with carpet bombing.  Do you have any strategies that will get the Ukraine back its lost land.  Hello.

[Oldcarpy2]

  You guys say that over there too?
Here it means ... the French.  

Exactly....

[Rubyred356]

Asking the very real question if the Ukraine can’t work out a deal to keep what they have, then what realistic strategy with what manpower is going to get their land back without the collapse of the Ukrainian.

I can think of a few western weapons systems that would change the tide of war.

[Oldcarpy2]

Why doesn’t the west give the Ukraine loads of our best conventional weapons and turn the Donbas into a moonscape with carpet bombing.  Do you have any strategies that will get the Ukraine back its lost land.  Hello.

Who wants a Moonscape?  Hello?

[WallFlowerActive]

Who wants a Moonscape?  Hello?

Then sneak some nukes to the Ukraine and act like they found some lost ones.

Come on.  What strategy is going to let the Ukraine recapture and hold their lost territories.

[Oldcarpy2]

Why doesn’t the west give the Ukraine loads of our best conventional weapons and turn the Donbas into a moonscape with carpet bombing.  Do you have any strategies that will get the Ukraine back its lost land.  Hello.

As far as I can see, that's not the sticking point.

I think they don't want to cede Territory that Russia hasn't gained.

Would you?

Probably....

[Oldcarpy2]

Then sneak some nukes to the Ukraine and act like they found some lost ones.

Come on.  What strategy is going to let the Ukraine recapture and hold their lost territories.

They gave up their nukes for a guarantee that Russia would not invade and respect their sovereignty 

I guess that the idea of M.A.D. is beyond your comprehension?

[andy06shake]

I can think of a few western weapons systems that would change the tide of war.

If they take off the kid gloves, give them access to the top-of-the-line long-range cruise missile and guided artillery.

Ukraine could obliterate the better part of the russian command structure, nevermind down town Moscow and St. Petersburg. 

But again, that would most likely equate to escalation that leads to a third world war. 

It's a sticky wicket if ever there was one, and Putin understands that fact just fine.

[WallFlowerActive]

As far as I can see, that's not the sticking point.

I think they don't want to cede Territory that Russia hasn't gained.

Would you?

Probably....

Unfortunately the Ukraine is living off other peoples shipments to them.  With the Ukraine bleeding manpower.  It’s a matter of what “allies” are willing to give teeth too.  If you think it’s about WW 3, then is it worth risking WW 3 and have allies act like actual allies.