(08-15-2025, 07:20 AM)andy06shake Wrote: I think so, at least to a certain degree.
 
It's the other stuff they contain that can be problematic. 

It's only problematic if ones is mind controlled by those who dismiss all the other teachings in the lost gospels, which includes spirituality to achieve ascension of the soul and all that that entails while in the mortal world. What's wrong with having other paths to follow to get to the same place in the end?

(08-15-2025, 07:34 AM)quintessentone Wrote: It's only problematic if ones is mind controlled by those who dismiss all the other teachings in the lost gospels, which includes spirituality to achieve ascension of the soul and all that that entails while in the mortal world. What's wrong with having other paths to follow to get to the same place in the end?

Nothing is wrong with that, and different paths can lead to similar truths.

Life and spirituality aren't a single-track journey.

Embracing multiple perspectives is the key imho.

(08-14-2025, 01:37 PM)Bootless Wrote: The title is shortened because, well, that's the way titles are.

The long title would be:

For those who claim that they know Jesus, sometimes called of Nazareth, or son of Mary, or son of God, or the Christ, or "that very wise Jewish rabbi who taught superior morals and ethics in 1st Century Judean province of Roman Empire"; I have some questions 

1) How many languages could he speak, and/or read?
2) Did he believe that the Firmament was a thing, like as in dome over a flat Earth?
3) or did he perhaps adopt the Grecian notion (Ptolemaic) of Geocentrism?
4) Do you think that his ideas of heaven influenced his teaching about The Kingdom of Ouranos in any way?
5) What form of government did Jesus consider ideal?

For #2, from the Lost sayings of Jesus, which mentions only heaven and earth and 'as above so below' type of spirituality.

"Call not any one “Father” on earth, for on earth there are rulers [only]; in heaven is the Father from whom is every descent both in heaven and on earth."

"If ye make not the below into the above and the above into the below, the right into the left and the left into the right, the before into the behind [and the behind into the before], ye shall not enter into the kingdom of God."

Lost Sayings of Jesus; Fragment of a Lost Gospel – hipmonkey

It appears in the quotes below, that I can only see Heaven and Earth being referred, and the firmament being the dividing factor between the two, but the firmament being named as Heaven. So it appears the firmament is all that is beyond the Earth and it's waters.

"1. Genesis 1:6 – “And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.”
2. Genesis 1:8 – “And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.”"

(08-15-2025, 06:53 AM)andy06shake Wrote: You can't claim omnipotence, follow God's plan, and not know when the world is going to end. 

Then you say Jesus is not God.
That's fine if that's what you believe.
People can believe anything they want.
But to be Christian you have to believe that Jesus is God.
And being the One True God means that you are omnipotent.

IF Jesus is God incarnate like scripture says, then he would have understood all languages.
He displayed that He knew events, hearts, thoughts, souls ... 
He displayed supernatural events that broke the laws of physics.
He displayed his power constantly, even after the last supper at the Mount of Olives,
when the crowd came to arrest Him all He did was speak and the power flowed from 
Him and they all fell to the ground.  After displaying His power He then allowed them 
to arrest him ... thus His life wasn't taken from Him but it showed that He freely gave it
for us.

When reading both Catholic and Protestant theology on why Jesus, at that time, did not know the hour of His return, both sides point to scripture stating that He emptied Himself, He kept His glory veiled at times and became the servant of God the Father.  Upon his resurrection and glorious ascension into Heaven He would have then retained back that knowledge would no longer have veiled His glory.

That's what the Christian theologians say anyways.

(08-15-2025, 08:05 AM)quintessentone Wrote:  .... from the Lost sayings of Jesus, ...

No.   From that which claims to be the lost sayings of Jesus but that has been condemned by Christianity as fake.

(08-15-2025, 09:15 AM)FlyersFan Wrote: No.   From that which claims to be the lost sayings of Jesus but that has been condemned by Christianity as fake.

Yes, only to further pushing the narratives deemed necessary for control over the sheep.

It is not fake, nor are the other lost gospels fake.

Jesus' teachings were heard far and wide and the lost gospels attest to the teachings.

(08-15-2025, 09:19 AM)quintessentone Wrote: It is not fake, nor are the other lost gospels fake.

Says you.
2,000 years of educated Christian theologians say otherwise.

(08-15-2025, 09:22 AM)FlyersFan Wrote: Says you.
2,000 years of educated Christian theologians say otherwise.

Yes, says me, and the multitude of lost gospels.

That's a generous word to use, 'educated', educated perhaps in being good little Christians and following the narrative, or do they. Those pastors keep getting caught molesting children, now don't they?

Christians in word only, not in true faith.

Big Week for MAGA Influencers & Republicans Accused of Child Sexual Abuse & Soliciting Minors - Jezebel

(08-15-2025, 09:27 AM)quintessentone Wrote: Christians in word only, not in true faith.

Strawman.  Deflection.   


Some of the wacky fake 'gospel of Thomas' stuff

Quote:The so-called Gospel of Thomas is a fake. It was written between one and two centuries after the apostle Thomas’s death. It contains some authentic sayings of Jesus because it is partially based on the canonical Gospels. It contains a bunch of stuff that is silly. It wasn’t written under divine inspiration. It doesn’t belong in the Bible.

Why we shouldn't trust the non-canonical gospels attributed to Thomas

Quote:Bart Ehrman argues the Gospel of Thomas is a 2[sup]nd[/sup] Century Gnostic text based on the lack of any reference to the coming Kingdom of God and return of Jesus. The earliest leaders of the Church also recognized the Gospel of Thomas was a late, inauthentic, heretical work. Hipploytus identified it as a fake and a heresy in “Refutation of All Heresies” (222-235AD), Origen referred to it in a similar way in a homily (written around 233AD), Eusebius resoundingly rejected it as an absurd, impious and heretical “fiction” in the third book of his “Church History” (written prior to 326AD), Cyril advised his followers to avoid the text as heretical in his “Catechesis” (347-348AD), and Pope Gelasius included the Gospel of Thomas in his list of heretical books in the 5th century.

(08-15-2025, 09:13 AM)FlyersFan Wrote: Then you say Jesus is not God.
That's fine if that's what you believe.
People can believe anything they want.
But to be Christian you have to believe that Jesus is God.
And being the One True God means that you are omnipotent.

IF Jesus is God incarnate like scripture says, then he would have understood all languages.
He displayed that He knew events, hearts, thoughts, souls ... 
He displayed supernatural events that broke the laws of physics.
He displayed his power constantly, even after the last supper at the Mount of Olives,
when the crowd came to arrest Him all He did was speak and the power flowed from 
Him and they all fell to the ground.  After displaying His power He then allowed them 
to arrest him ... thus His life wasn't taken from Him but it showed that He freely gave it
for us.

When reading both Catholic and Protestant theology on why Jesus, at that time, did not know the hour of His return, both sides point to scripture stating that He emptied Himself, He kept His glory veiled at times and became the servant of God the Father.  Upon his resurrection and glorious ascension into Heaven He would have then retained back that knowledge would no longer have veiled His glory.

That's what the Christian theologians say anyways.

"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Mark 13:32

Not really about what i say, that's important, but i would not be the only one. 

As to Jesus being God, I've never met the fellow or his dad.

But he certainly was not omnipotent here on Earth, nor did he speak all languages.

You see, the biblical worldview was essentially centered on the ""known world"" of the Eastern Mediterranean and the surrounding empires.

So to claim someone from Galilee could speak all languages from around the globe is sheer lunacy.

What about people on the other unmentioned continents, for a start?

It certainly does not follow any sort of logical train of thought that i can fathom.