What they are saying in Russia about Trump's victory

[UltraBudgie]

Any insights on what North Korea is really like, from the recent tales of cooperation? How does China feel about North Korea and Russia ties evolving, especially given their historical involvement there? Surely Russia has some speculation about how (NATO/6Eyes) will respond to this changing dynamic?

Here haha to save you some typing! (((((((((

Хорошего дня!

[Kurokage]

Any insights on what North Korea is really like, from the recent tales of cooperation? How does China feel about North Korea and Russia ties evolving, especially given their historical involvement there? Surely Russia has some speculation about how (NATO/6Eyes) will respond to this changing dynamic?

Here haha to save you some typing! (((((((((

Хорошего дня!

Here's something from the mail online about what the North Koreans may or may not be doing whilst in Russia...

Pentagon says it cannot confirm North Korean troops are 'gorging themselves on porn' after being deployed to fight against Ukraine. 

The Pentagon has said they are unable to verify whether North Korean troops are 'gorging themselves on porn' after being enlisted to fight in Ukraine. 
A shocking report by Financial Times columnist Gideon Rachman revealed this week that Kim Jong Un's troops were watching adult content in their barracks having never enjoyed such unrestricted access to the web. 
However, US Department of Defense spokesperson Major Charlie Dietz said he was unable to verify 'any North Korean internet habits or virtual ''extracurriculars'' in Russia'.

 
He added that the Pentagon is only concerned with the 'more serious' aspects of the North Korean military's relationship with Russia. 
'As for internet access, that's a question best directed to Moscow,' Dietz said.
'Right now, our attention remains on supporting Ukraine and addressing the more significant regional security concerns,' he concluded.

[jaded]

There is necessary BS on both sides Russian & American. 

The Russian Oligarchs are not any different than the US Elites or the European bunch. They insist on playing games at what they insist are too complicated levels for the common person to understand. 

Trump will only be in office for 4 yrs. Putin has been around for 20+ & isn't going anywhere so as a US citizen, us getting our backs up an reverting to cold war spitting & hissing really does make us look like rubes. Diplomacy is there for a reason. All govt's have their war-hawks, Putin just does a better job at controlling Russia's. The US has let ours run wild which is why we now have to buckle down an clean house. 

There's going to be a LOT of posturing by all flavors of world leaders until the dust settles. Jumping on every bit of it only solidifies us here in the US as immature. Something I resent our political leaders for perpetuating. 

Behind the world stage are people. People trying to feed their kids, people who have crappy jobs & crappier bosses. We have much more in common with ordinary Russians than not. Every single time things heat up on the world stage I'm watching video's of everyday village life in Russia. What pulls me up short every single time is simple.

HAVE YOU SEEN THEIR FRONT DOORS?
Plywood with a hinge or leather strap. I have a VERY hard time considering anyone a enemy who lives thru -40 with no insulation & a piece of plywood. A even harder time watching older/elderly Russian's with multiple Phd's eaking out a living with gardens, fishing, hauling water chopping wood, cause there aren't any jobs. 

Trump means what he says, but Putin has been keeping Russia together with bandaides an stink-eye. Pretty sure we can all quit the posturing an just get down to brass tacks working out ways forward like adults. JMO

[Maxmars]

Hello DI!

The US presidential elections are over! I have never interfered in discussions about this or that candidate either on ATS or on DI regarding the elections, so as not to be accused of "Russian interference" again. Although everyone who felt like it interfered in the American elections - from the British to the Papuans-Ukrainians. But... this is sacred, this is different. Okay.

Now that everything has ended well, I want to express some of my thoughts. Thank God that there were no clashes and especially no civil war. Those forum participants who remember me from the ATS days remember that I constantly warned Americans about such scenarios, showing what could happen using the example of my Russia. My prayers worked at this stage, I am glad. And I congratulate all Americans on this.

Now about Russian expectations. There is no euphoria in Russia. We all remember very well that it was under Trump that the two current wars were prepared - in Ukraine and in the Middle East. In Ukraine, it was Trump who first authorized the supply of lethal offensive weapons to the regime in Ukraine. It was also Trump who moved the US embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, which serves as the trigger for the conflict. And he also broke the peace agreement with Iran. In addition, it was under Trump that the most extensive deterioration in diplomatic relations with Russia occurred, which began with the expulsion of dozens of Russian diplomats under a far-fetched pretext and the confiscation of Russian diplomatic property.

So there are no illusions. Russia is facing times of tough negotiations. There is no place for ultimatums here, but only for the interests of both countries. So the counter euphoria that Trump will now order Putin, and he will immediately agree to everything - in the trash bin. Putin is not the equal of European leaders who can simply be ordered. Russia cannot be defeated by force, and threatening it is useless. We need to negotiate taking into account the interests of all. The West should finally understand this. At the same time, many Western media outlets write that Putin will begin negotiations from a position of prevailing power. Possibly.

So we are in for long, tedious, and not always productive negotiations. But it is still better than nothing. Moreover, the US and Russia have many points of contact, on the basis of which agreements are possible. I hope that the times of artificially imposed multiculturalism, gender diversity, Satanism, atheism and hatred on national grounds are ending. A simple American worker, a farmer who believes in God, loves his family, his children, his country, honors his parents and his flag, is much closer to a Russian person. We are the same. On this basis, we need to look for points of mutual understanding and trust.

That's all in brief.

Thank you.

Clearly we all communicate from different foundations of information.  Much of it is 'controlled' and 'contrived.'  Sad "productions" with imagery and direction, built to convey a message - not news - intended to promote support for a position crafted to be 'obvious.'

There is no doubt that what we here in the idealized West are informed by a by a thoroughly captured media; most often overtly biased and conforming with the prevalent dominion of the entrenched interests of the media owners... many of those owners are financially and politically affixed to purposes that have little to do with informing the public, and more intended to engender implicit bias. 

But Russia is no way free from that deficit... essentially having only one true source of information and a single editorial objective as well. Who's to argue with what the press in Russia says?  Certainly not the Russians...  The West suffers a somewhat similar circumstance, although we are generally less afraid to confront the media's many abuses.

How Putin feels about Trump, and what Trump feels about Putin is all 'imagery.'  None of it is 'necessarily' factual information. 
We all, even you, are told what we are expected to accept as 'valid.' 
Public opinion has political value because without the publics' support neither state can operate 'free from resistance' (according to the wishes of the cabals which infest them.) 

Imagery is the essential tool of media... and media has been completely captured in Russia, and mostly captured in the West. 
I discount North Korea because they have not even the pretense of media as either of us may understand it. 
In North Korea, "media" is just "instructions."

NATO is a de facto militant irritant... and the West has been hiding from that fact for decades. 
Russia overtly postures itself by validating NATO's purpose over and over... as if they were working in tandem... towards the same end.

Some people truly think they are working together... how else would trillions in weapon trafficking be continuously flowing across the globe? 

Why is "peace" a ludicrous concept now? 
How could it possibly be that Ukraine can't be allowed to exist (despite "political' memberships?)
How could it be that NATO simply must poke and prod at the remains of the Soviet Empire? 
Why is NATO's existential raison d'être inflated into an 'existential threat' that Russia only ever encourages?

The US election may or may not actually change these factors... but the realist in me knows that won't happen if the agents exploiting the situation remain parasitically attached to the centers of power (as they are... even perhaps in Russia.)  Why are US citizen 'obliged' to dump billions into this play... 'morality?'

I think there is a "game" being played here... one involving the laundering Bank (who never loses out in these affairs.)  Money is at the root of this game... and human lives are the "throw away" triviality that the players use.  Have you looked around at the human costs here?  Is there any way either side can claim a 'win?, in terms of death and destruction?  I call your attention to the true 'results'... to ask simple questions... who wins?  What was 'won?'  Who walks away "smiling?"

I don't pretend to easily understand your position because I am not you.  I don't pretend that you are a Russian mind slave, a construct literally 'programmed' or 'commanded' to say what you say, share what you share... I offer you the respect of dignity and the presumption of being a person operating of your own free will.  I hope, despite your own personal feelings, you can offer your western correspondents the same.  Some of us are from different countries, with different perspectives, and different understandings.

Whatever analysis comes form the exchange should at least confirm that there are questions that are NOT being answered, objectives that are NOT being revealed, and 'gamesmanship' that is NOT part of the dialog.

But we all can see that destruction and death is the result... and none of those corpses and mangled people chose their fate... someone else did... someone in an office... someone in 'command.'   "Winning."

[RussianTroll]

Any insights on what North Korea is really like, from the recent tales of cooperation? How does China feel about North Korea and Russia ties evolving, especially given their historical involvement there? Surely Russia has some speculation about how (NATO/6Eyes) will respond to this changing dynamic?

Here haha to save you some typing! (((((((((

Хорошего дня!

Both Russia and China understand perfectly well that the Anglo-Saxons' dream is to drive a wedge into their relations. That's why I take your question about China and North Korea with humor. Do you really seriously think that the treaty between Russia and North Korea has not been agreed upon with China? If so, you are a naive person.)))

Regarding NATO's reaction. The alliance between China and Russia nullifies NATO's aggressive plans. This is clear to everyone. By the way, what about the fairy tale about NATO being a purely defensive alliance? Who is it going to defend itself against in the Pacific Ocean off the coast of China and Russia?

[RussianTroll]

There is necessary BS on both sides Russian & American. 

The Russian Oligarchs are not any different than the US Elites or the European bunch. They insist on playing games at what they insist are too complicated levels for the common person to understand. 

Trump will only be in office for 4 yrs. Putin has been around for 20+ & isn't going anywhere so as a US citizen, us getting our backs up an reverting to cold war spitting & hissing really does make us look like rubes. Diplomacy is there for a reason. All govt's have their war-hawks, Putin just does a better job at controlling Russia's. The US has let ours run wild which is why we now have to buckle down an clean house. 

There's going to be a LOT of posturing by all flavors of world leaders until the dust settles. Jumping on every bit of it only solidifies us here in the US as immature. Something I resent our political leaders for perpetuating. 

Behind the world stage are people. People trying to feed their kids, people who have crappy jobs & crappier bosses. We have much more in common with ordinary Russians than not. Every single time things heat up on the world stage I'm watching video's of everyday village life in Russia. What pulls me up short every single time is simple.

HAVE YOU SEEN THEIR FRONT DOORS?
Plywood with a hinge or leather strap. I have a VERY hard time considering anyone a enemy who lives thru -40 with no insulation & a piece of plywood. A even harder time watching older/elderly Russian's with multiple Phd's eaking out a living with gardens, fishing, hauling water chopping wood, cause there aren't any jobs. 

Trump means what he says, but Putin has been keeping Russia together with bandaides an stink-eye. Pretty sure we can all quit the posturing an just get down to brass tacks working out ways forward like adults. JMO

In my opinion, your ideas about Russia and the Russian village have not changed since the 90s of the last century. What you are describing has long since disappeared, as have the oligarchs. They all either emigrated or obeyed the law. This has been tough in Russia lately. But thank you, I smiled.

[Kurokage]

NATO is a de facto militant irritant... and the West has been hiding from that fact for decades.

NATO as you well know was originally set up purely as a defensive arrangement, with no intention of attacking anyone and its independent members agreeing to defend each other against attack. During the Cold War it was used as a detterant against the USSR nuclear threat.  After the USSR loss of the cold war and following collapse, many previously 'occupied' states believed that membership of NATO was a way of protecting against any future Russian aggression. After Putins invasion of Ukraine, I'd say it was a good idea.

Russian Troll in his many threads on ATS and now here has always said Russia wasn't fighting Ukraine but NATO, if that was true then why did Putin invade in the first place? Why would Putin want confilict with NATO? It's just out right fabrication.

[RussianTroll]

Clearly we all communicate from different foundations of information.  Much of it is 'controlled' and 'contrived.'  Sad "productions" with imagery and direction, built to convey a message - not news - intended to promote support for a position crafted to be 'obvious.'

There is no doubt that what we here in the idealized West are informed by a by a thoroughly captured media; most often overtly biased and conforming with the prevalent dominion of the entrenched interests of the media owners... many of those owners are financially and politically affixed to purposes that have little to do with informing the public, and more intended to engender implicit bias. 

But Russia is no way free from that deficit... essentially having only one true source of information and a single editorial objective as well. Who's to argue with what the press in Russia says?  Certainly not the Russians...  The West suffers a somewhat similar circumstance, although we are generally less afraid to confront the media's many abuses.

How Putin feels about Trump, and what Trump feels about Putin is all 'imagery.'  None of it is 'necessarily' factual information. 
We all, even you, are told what we are expected to accept as 'valid.' 
Public opinion has political value because without the publics' support neither state can operate 'free from resistance' (according to the wishes of the cabals which infest them.) 

Imagery is the essential tool of media... and media has been completely captured in Russia, and mostly captured in the West. 
I discount North Korea because they have not even the pretense of media as either of us may understand it. 
In North Korea, "media" is just "instructions."

NATO is a de facto militant irritant... and the West has been hiding from that fact for decades. 
Russia overtly postures itself by validating NATO's purpose over and over... as if they were working in tandem... towards the same end.

Some people truly think they are working together... how else would trillions in weapon trafficking be continuously flowing across the globe? 

Why is "peace" a ludicrous concept now? 
How could it possibly be that Ukraine can't be allowed to exist (despite "political' memberships?)
How could it be that NATO simply must poke and prod at the remains of the Soviet Empire? 
Why is NATO's existential raison d'être inflated into an 'existential threat' that Russia only ever encourages?

The US election may or may not actually change these factors... but the realist in me knows that won't happen if the agents exploiting the situation remain parasitically attached to the centers of power (as they are... even perhaps in Russia.)  Why are US citizen 'obliged' to dump billions into this play... 'morality?'

I think there is a "game" being played here... one involving the laundering Bank (who never loses out in these affairs.)  Money is at the root of this game... and human lives are the "throw away" triviality that the players use.  Have you looked around at the human costs here?  Is there any way either side can claim a 'win?, in terms of death and destruction?  I call your attention to the true 'results'... to ask simple questions... who wins?  What was 'won?'  Who walks away "smiling?"

I don't pretend to easily understand your position because I am not you.  I don't pretend that you are a Russian mind slave, a construct literally 'programmed' or 'commanded' to say what you say, share what you share... I offer you the respect of dignity and the presumption of being a person operating of your own free will.  I hope, despite your own personal feelings, you can offer your western correspondents the same.  Some of us are from different countries, with different perspectives, and different understandings.

Whatever analysis comes form the exchange should at least confirm that there are questions that are NOT being answered, objectives that are NOT being revealed, and 'gamesmanship' that is NOT part of the dialog.

But we all can see that destruction and death is the result... and none of those corpses and mangled people chose their fate... someone else did... someone in an office... someone in 'command.'   "Winning."

On Ukraine.
Trump may not yet understand the essence of the conflict, but the "shareholders" understand the tasks it solves for the United States very well. Apparently, Trump has entered into a situational alliance with the "shareholders". The goal of both sides is to build an American (Anglo-Saxon) macro-region. The war has already allowed Washington to increase its influence in Europe, depriving the EU countries of the remaining sovereignty. Everything is moving towards the fact that Europe will enter the American macro-region as a colony. Therefore, ending the conflict is not beneficial for the "shareholders". They will convey this idea to Trump sooner or later.

Accordingly, one cannot count on stopping the supply of weapons and financing the Kyiv regime. After all, Ukraine has no sovereignty. Ukraine is Anti-Russia. Hence the whole policy. They will give as many weapons as necessary to continue the confrontation, which will be stretched out as much as possible. Of course, various domestic political shows are possible with delays in the allocation of budgets for these purposes. But in the end, they will give them anyway, as was the case before. There are no illusions.

[UltraBudgie]

By the way, what about the fairy tale about NATO being a purely defensive alliance?

It is called "defensive" for purposes both of vulgar simplicity and covert truth. Only the middle-ground cannon fodder who practice tribal warfare consider it ironic. That is most people, in both Russia and USA.

Both Russia and China understand perfectly well that the Anglo-Saxons' dream is to drive a wedge into their relations. That's why I take your question about China and North Korea with humor. Do you really seriously think that the treaty between Russia and North Korea has not been agreed upon with China?

This is a good point to approach. Here is the public ulterior elite narrative currently:

This paper examines the state of cooperation between China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea, and identifies paths that could lead to their closer cooperation—and paths that would not.

...U.S. policymakers therefore need to monitor the signs of deepening cooperation between them, but they should also be careful not to overstate the group’s coherence and thereby encourage them to solidify into a real bloc. To the contrary, the aim of U.S. policy should be to divide them. Just as the United States managed to split China and the Soviet Union during the Cold War, and thus destroy the myth of “monolithic communism,” today it should aim to split this group and thereby defuse the threat that it could pose.

...China has a vested interest in propping up North Korea, no matter how difficult a partner it is. China would face a massive refugee crisis were the North Korean state to fall apart, not to mention the likely expansion of U.S. ally South Korea across the whole peninsula. The Chinese Communist Party’s legitimacy partly stems from its successful support of the north during the Korean War, and its leaders may also fear that a collapse would damage this legitimcy.

...The war in Ukraine and shared antipathy toward the United States has turned the once chilly relationship between North Korea and Russia toward pragmatic and growing cooperation. Pyongyang has supplied Moscow with much-needed munitions in exchange for cash, weapons-manufacturing supplies, the possibility of advanced military technology, and, in 2024, a rekindled security agreement.

...North Korea and Russia signed a treaty for comprehensive strategic partnership in June 2024. The treaty states that if “either side faces an armed invasion and is in a state of war, the other side will immediately use all available means to provide military and other assistance in accordance with Article 51 of the UN Charter and the laws of each country.” This has a foreboding sound to it, but does not necessarily mean security cooperation between North Korea and Russia will accelerate or that either side would actually do much to assist the other in wartime. “Military and other assistance” is a vague term, and Russia likely intentionally kept it so to ensure some flexibility in the event that North Korea gets itself into a war and invokes the treaty.

...China, Iran, North Korea, and Russia threaten the United States’ interests and complicate its statecraft in a number of ways. But this has been the case for several years. Sound policy should distingish between the challenge that existing forms of cooperation outlined above pose today and the threat that their cooperation would create were it to deepen. As of now, cooperation between these U.S. adversaries has created some problems, largely because of the support Russia has gained for its war on Ukraine.

https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2...ca?lang=en

Now, I believe we and many others are aware of the amount of cow excretions present there, but as a level of the narrative onion, it is at least somewhat tractable, both within the onion-domes and without. Certainly the interest beneath North Korea are now visible at the table, as China must step up at all costs to protect the tapestry that Kissinger so kindly wove. NATO, in this respect, is playing defense with its offense, as it is deeply committed in an existential way to certain status quos. China knows this, as does Russia, yet neither can form a coherent policy to extend this, without foot-shooting.

Let us say, then, Russia is a gas station owner who hates cars, and no one in BRICS can pedal a tandem bicycle, much less navigate.

[RussianTroll]

It is called "defensive" for purposes both of vulgar simplicity and covert truth. Only the middle-ground cannon fodder who practice tribal warfare consider it ironic. That is most people, in both Russia and USA.


This is a good point to approach. Here is the public ulterior elite narrative currently:


Now, I believe we and many others are aware of the amount of cow excretions present there, but as a level of the narrative onion, it is at least somewhat tractable, both within the onion-domes and without. Certainly the interest beneath North Korea are now visible at the table, as China must step up at all costs to protect the tapestry that Kissinger so kindly wove. NATO, in this respect, is playing defense with its offense, as it is deeply committed in an existential way to certain status quos. China knows this, as does Russia, yet neither can form a coherent policy to extend this, without foot-shooting.

Let us say, then, Russia is a gas station owner who hates cars, and no one in BRICS can pedal a tandem bicycle, much less navigate.

Your thoughts are interesting. But they reflect only one point of view, the Western one. Moreover, they do not take into account the mentalities of peoples of many thousands of years, their traditions, culture and history. In fact, interstate relations are a much more serious thing than the Western "I will give them money, buy their elite, raise one generation of them, make a color revolution and rob them forever." This is the conceptual difference in our approaches and assessments.