US-Iran War Mudpit Thread

[EXETER]

.......
If the US backed off now, Iran would control the world's oil supply, we'd be kissing their asses.

.........

And, for better or worse, we probably will back off now.  During the first 5 or 6 weeks of the war, Beavis and Butthead attacked around 13,000 targets, according to them.  Other people support that number, so I don't fundamentally dispute it.  And, the US military is quite good at hitting what they aim at.  So I don't doubt that the targets were damaged/destroyed.  

And that brought us to the "cease fire", which has been off and on for several months now.  When the cease fire is off, we attack one or two hundred targets.  When the cease fire is on, Iran earns more hard currency to build more drones. What would make anyone think that a few hundred more targets destroyed would produce results fundamentally different from what 13,000 failed to produce?

There's no way to defeat Iran that doesn't require boots on the ground.  Lots of boots on the ground.  More than we have and more than the public and Congress are willing to pay for.  

So, we will back off.  It's just a question of when.  Trump is still trying the same things he's been trying all along and hoping for a different outcome.  Pretty much the definition of insanity. Probably after the midterms he will find a way to declare victory and move on. He'll probably blame it on Hilary Hussein O'Biden. 

All this was not only predictable, but actually predicted by knowledgeable experienced military and national security experts. Which is why rational Presidents before Trump declined to step in this particular cow pie.  

And none of this is in any way taking the side of the Iranian government or its policies nor is it a hatred of Jews.  It's simply recognizing that trying to turn Iran into a different nation by military force--one that we like better--is a bridge too far.  

As Dirty Harry Callahan famously said, "A man's got to know his limitations".

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

For those still against this, then you have fallen to the side of Iran and might as well wear a fucking burka and wave their flag.

False Dilemma
False Dichotomy
Guilt by Association
Straw Man Fallacy

A majority of Americans oppose this war. 85% of democrats, 65% of independents, and 15% of Republicans. Most without supporting Iran. 

You've just lumped 6 out of 10 Americans into an enemy category that outnumbers the accepted colors. More enemy Americans currently then true patriots.  And i dont accept that. 

An equivalent fallacy for the left would be saying...

"The only people that are against woke and green might as well admit they are racist bigots and want to destroy the planet." 

You accept that? Do you accept that black and white?

But for fun I did ask google "what type of government" your quote advocates for...

This quote describes or advocates for an authoritarian or totalitarian system of government, specifically characterized by political polarization, hyper-nationalism, and a "with us or against us" mentality.
Key Political Characteristics

• Totalitarian Us-vs-Them Mentality: The statement uses a classic political manipulation tactic known as a false dilemma. It forces citizens into only two extreme categories: total submission to the current regime's policy or immediate classification as a foreign enemy.
  
• Jingoism and Ultranationalism: It relies on intense, aggressive nationalism. dissent or disagreement with a specific government policy is framed as literal treason and alignment with a hostile foreign power (in this case, Iran).
  
• Demagoguery: This is a style of political leadership or rhetoric that exploits prejudice, fear, and cultural stereotypes (referencing religious garments like the burka out of context) to shut down rational public debate.
  
• Suppression of Dissent: In governments where this rhetoric becomes law, political opposition is criminalized. Citizens lose the right to criticize state choices without facing accusations of subversion. 
  

So to sublimate my fear of that, I'll try something that wont work..

Since you coined "ECL" based on what people say, do you mind if I use your above quote and what Google says about it to call MAGA The "Ultra-National Isolationist Cult Your Country Legally Elected Somehow."

I have backed off calling MAGA fascists, but when you use THAT black/white fallacy , I really could.  But I wont... I will just have to come up with my own acronym at some point..

[DBCowboy]

False Dilemma
False Dichotomy
Guilt by Association
Straw Man Fallacy

A majority of Americans oppose this war. 85% of democrats, 65% of independents, and 15% of Republicans. Most without supporting Iran. 

You've just lumped 6 out of 10 Americans into an enemy category that outnumbers the accepted colors. More enemy Americans currently then true patriots.  And i dont accept that. 

An equivalent fallacy for the left would be saying...

"The only people that are against woke and green might as well admit they are racist bigots and want to destroy the planet." 

You accept that? Do you accept that black and white?

But for fun I did ask google "what type of government" your quote advocates for...

So to sublimate my fear of that, Ill try something that wont work..

Since you coined "ECL" based on what people say, do you mind if I use your above quote and what Google says about it to call MAGA The "Ultra-National Isolationist Cult Your Country Legally Elected Somehow."

I have backed off calling MAGA fascists, but when you use THAT black/white fallacy , I really could.  But I wont... I will just have to come up with my own acronym at some point..

Most people just believe what the nightly news tells them to believe.

Most people are sheep.

[DBCowboy]

And, for better or worse, we probably will back off now.  During the first 5 or 6 weeks of the war, Beavis and Butthead attacked around 13,000 targets, according to them.  Other people support that number, so I don't fundamentally dispute it.  And, the US military is quite good at hitting what they aim at.  So I don't doubt that the targets were damaged/destroyed.  

And that brought us to the "cease fire", which has been off and on for several months now.  When the cease fire is off, we attack one or two hundred targets.  When the cease fire is on, Iran earns more hard currency to build more drones. What would make anyone think that a few hundred more targets destroyed would produce results fundamentally different from what 13,000 failed to produce?

There's no way to defeat Iran that doesn't require boots on the ground.  Lots of boots on the ground.  More than we have and more than the public and Congress are willing to pay for.  

So, we will back off.  It's just a question of when.  Trump is still trying the same things he's been trying all along and hoping for a different outcome.  Pretty much the definition of insanity. Probably after the midterms he will find a way to declare victory and move on. He'll probably blame it on Hilary Hussein O'Biden. 

All this was not only predictable, but actually predicted by knowledgeable experienced military and national security experts. Which is why rational Presidents before Trump declined to step in this particular cow pie.  

And none of this is in any way taking the side of the Iranian government or its policies nor is it a hatred of Jews.  It's simply recognizing that trying to turn Iran into a different nation by military force--one that we like better--is a bridge too far.  

As Dirty Harry Callahan famously said, "A man's got to know his limitations".

If we "back off" then Iran wins, the ECL wins, except for real Americans.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

Most people just believe what the nightly news tells them to believe.

Most people are sheep.

And also dogs and pigs..

[DBCowboy]

And also dogs and pigs..

[Video: https://youtu.be/ZUEGeWYWbuU?is=pZDrMoDzdzg3cmxp]

Yeah, and in your world, some are more equal than others.

[chr0naut]

The US and Israel have to destroy the Iranian regime.

No, they don't. The war only started quite recently. For 47 years, they didn't seem to be an existential threat to other countries, and nothing much changed with Iran's relations to other countries prior to the attacks.

The evil Iranians have made the Strait their own, charging and denying passage to what the entire world needs.

Iran didn't close the Straight of Hormuz until the USA and Israel attacked them. Trumb also closed the Straight of Hormuz, so if closing a world shipping lane is wrong, the USA is just as guilty.

Also, the Straight of Hormuz is a shared waterway that falls within both Iran's and Oman's national waters, and it always has been.

If the US backed off now, Iran would control the world's oil supply, we'd be kissing their asses.

Only about 33% the world's oil comes via the Straights of Hormuz.

If Iran continued to block the Straights of Hormuz, everyone would find other alternate supply routes.

My guess is that Iran would open the Straights of Hormuz because it is also the primary trade route for Iran itself.

Fortunately, we're stronger, bigger, and by God, fucking meaner than these bastards.

Like the USA was in Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan?

You also have to factor in that your commander in chief is that idiot and his inner circle wear his clown shoes (because they fear offending the psychopath):



But the USA has historically been more evil.

So they will lose and the US will have once again, saved the world.

The USA is the greater threat to the many non-warring countries of the world.

You're welcome.

For those still against this, then you have fallen to the side of Iran and might as well wear a fucking burka and wave their flag.

It would be remiss of people to allow evil to be done, but doesn't mean that they have to, or want to, acquiesce to the culture and ideology of the victims.

If someone were to attempt to kill you out of the blue, when you didn't do anything to offend or threaten or attack them, then the attacker would be bad, doing evil to you.

The USA attacked Iran, unprovoked.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

 Yeah, and in your world, some are more equal than others. 

Did you guys get Snowball yet! He's funded by the Mr. Jones Deep State! 

 

[chr0naut]

Iranian leadership has enjoyed 47 years of doing what they want without punishment.

They had 47 years of peace... and then the fire-nation attacked!

Look at Iran as a spoiled kid who finally rage-quitted.

Iran is a country of more than 93 million people.

They don't know how to respond to a strong President who doesn't pander and look at foreign policy as an instrument for the next election.

Trump is actually doing something right, regardless of the media and the ECL screaming.

No, that idiot attacked first and didn't even seem to know what his objectives were in attacking.

Trumb later said it was to stop Iran getting nukes, but he's just done a 'deal' with Saudi Arabia, allowing them to enrich uranium.

I don't think that idiot could even pronounce nonproliferation, let alone understand the term.

Also, no consideration for the several countries that ARE nuclear armed and that HAVE threatened the USA directly. If he is such a great leader, why doesn't he negotiate to protect the USA from REAL threats?

[chr0naut]

If we "back off" then Iran wins, the ECL wins, except for real Americans.

You don't think Trumbies are real Americans, do you?