US-Iran War Mudpit Thread

[bastion]

And I'm still waiting for a post from you that makes me go 'there's a clever point' or 'that's an original idea'. This is a forum of debate, which requires reasoned counter argument.

At least DBCowboy is often funny, even though we disagree.

Agreed with all that - I'd certainly buy DBC more than a few pints if we ever met and have learnt a lot from him in the past.

While I disagree with most of Orby's views he's also someone who can engage in exchange of ideas and debate rather than posting gifs, memes or insults that add nothing to the thread or ongoing debate.

On topic: Iran have refused a ceasefire offer the Iraqi PM was brokering between US and Iran.

US have reduced the official number of US troops killed in the war from 18 to 14. They're ignoring US servicemen killed in Iranian attacks on Jordan as  they occurred after the failed April ceasefire and it's more important to pretend the ceasefire is still working than to honour those who lost their lives serving their country.  Pentagon suddenly removes troop deaths from the record

The move has been attacked by a lot of Republicans as an 'absurd ruse'  to pretend the ceasefire worked as if they admitted the deaths occurred it would mean Hegsketh admitting he broke US law/Constitution as the conflict has lasted more than 90 days without congressional approval.

Houthis have struck more shipping tankers in the Red Sea and Mozambique/Indian oil tankers (potentially mistaken identity or could be tactic to close it down/overstretch US Navy patrols).

The Saudi-led coalition strikes are ramping up in Yemen as the conflict spreads across the ME. Houthis are blockading Saudi ships in Red Sea/Suez and Saudi are blockading Yemeni ships in retaliation, Houthis are blockading the Saudi blockade and so on to infinity.

The developments are going to cause major disruption to global shipping and prices to skyrocket/bottlenecks be under further pressure,  cutting off 25% of global shipping and

80% increase in US air traffic to the ME in recent days so the war is expected to continue for the 'indefinite future' by analysts.

[quintessentone]

Your nit picking over tiny numbers. We are watching the Iranian military and nuclear threat being dismantled and a redrawing of the ME. Trump is going to go down in the annals of history as one of the greatest US Presidents ever. Combined with his Abrahamic Accord we are seeing a new dawn in a region that  just might bring peace and prosperity. Give Trump a chance. 

I'm not American btw. I'm British.  I just believe President Trump is a breath of fresh air, the best thing since sliced bread. I love him and wish we could have him here.

The majority of Americans disagree with him and his grifting and warmongering ways. He is bought and paid for by Zionist expansionists and genocidal maniacs...for profit. American lives lost mean nothing to them.

The Abrahamic Accord isn't signed yet and most likely will not be, you are jumping the gun there.

The people of Iran were about to overthrow their government when Trump intervened because...he was failing in his governance of the country and needed a war...needed to find an enemy.

The ME will never see peace and prosperity while Israel's Zionist faction is in power.

Iran hasn't attacked any neighbor for decades, ask yourself which country/countries did.

[andy06shake]

Well after seeing what a marvellous job the USA did in reshaping 1945 Nazi \ fascists Europe to the place it became by the 1980s Them I'll give the Yanks a chance to do the same with the ME.

Do you think thats what the people of the Middle East wish to happen?

To be policed from afar by America. 

Meddling in their lives and daily affairs from 6000 odd miles distant.

Who's paying for that? 

Additionally, we had a Cold War for 44 years where the majority of the Western world lived with the threat of nuclear annihilation on the horizon every day of the week. 

Marvellous job, my arse, unless you enjoyed the prospect of being immolated all the time.
 
Europe was divided for nearly half a century by the Iron Curtain.

Rebuilding the Middle East would be far more complex than simply repeating a 1945 template.

Look at how our interventions went in Iraq and Afghanistan for a start.

What makes you think they would fare any better with Iran?

[andy06shake]

But Trump doesn't even drink. 

So all of you TDS sufferers are deluding yourselves.  Just making things up hoping something will happen to stop Trump.  It won't. You need to get your heads screwed back on straight. That's the 1st step.

He drinks copious amounts of Diet Coke, which can be risky for people in their eighties because of a higher chance of stroke.

Then there is the Sudafed and Aspirin intake to consider...

His piss poor diet and the fact that he appears to get somewhat less than the recommended eight hours' sleep a night. 

If you think the fella looks healthy and firing on all cylinders.

I have to ponder it's because you want to as opposed to the reality of the matter...

But hey'ho, if you imagine bruising all over the place and having to cover it up with makeup and concealer is normal...

[Orby]

Do you think thats what the people of the Middle East wish to happen?

To be policed from afar by America. 

Meddling in their lives and daily affairs from 6000 odd miles distant.

Who's paying for that? 

Additionally, we had a Cold War for 44 years where the majority of the Western world lived with the threat of nuclear annihilation on the horizon every day of the week. 

Marvellous job, my arse, unless you enjoyed the prospect of being immolated all the time.
 
Europe was divided for nearly half a century by the Iron Curtain.

Rebuilding the Middle East would be far more complex than simply repeating a 1945 template.

Look at how our interventions went in Iraq and Afghanistan for a start.

What makes you think they would fare any better with Iran?

You look back all the time and compare things with the  past. Those days are gone We are living now. Not tomorrow, not yesterday, now. On 7/10 a redrawing of the ME was decided by Bibi, he is using everything at his disposal to achieve this. USA also has reason to eliminate Iran a  military threat So, we are here today living in this reality.

[Orby]

The majority of Americans disagree with him and his grifting and warmongering ways. He is bought and paid for by Zionist expansionists and genocidal maniacs...for profit. American lives lost mean nothing to them.

The Abrahamic Accord isn't signed yet and most likely will not be, you are jumping the gun there.

The people of Iran were about to overthrow their government when Trump intervened because...he was failing in his governance of the country and needed a war...needed to find an enemy.

The ME will never see peace and prosperity while Israel's Zionist faction is in power.

Iran hasn't attacked any neighbor for decades, ask yourself which country/countries did.

If I like all your theories and observations, but Iran pushed it too far on 7/10. Tjhat, like 9/11 was the catalyst. Repeat after me......   7/10, 7/10, /7/10 ,7/10 , 7/10 you need to understand this from the other pair of shoes why Iran is being whittled away right now. Come on.......... 7/10, 7/10, 7/10, 7/10

[andy06shake]

You look back all the time and compare things with the  past. Those days are gone We are living now. Not tomorrow, not yesterday, now. On 7/10 a redrawing of the ME was decided by Bibi, he is using everything at his disposal to achieve this. USA also has reason to eliminate Iran a  military threat So, we are here today living in this reality.

Would you rather I compare things to future events? 

History is how we understand the present, Orby.

If you ignore past decisions, alliances, and interventions.

You lose context which is needed to explain why events are happening in the manner they now are.

And pretending today's events appeared out of nowhere doesn't make for any sort of argument.

Saying Netanyahu decided to redraw the Middle East on 7 October is a claim, not something that's been proven. 

Additionally, why would Bibi get to redraw a map of the Middle East?

Who made him the fecking decider or lord god of Sharpies? 

[Orby]

Saying Netanyahu decided to redraw the Middle East on 7 October is a claim, not something that's been proven. 

Additionally, why would Bibi get to redraw a map of the Middle East?

Who made him the fecking decider or lord god of Sharpies? 

I watched Bibi say it post 7/10. The historical model of just accepting Iran and it's actions was increasingly being shown to be faiiling. That's why you can't count on history. So  a new way was found......... Bomb the sh*t out of them 

[andy06shake]

I watched Bibi say it post 7/10. The historical model of just accepting Iran and it's actions was increasingly being shown to be faiiling. That's why you can't count on history. So  a new way was found......... Bomb the sh*t out of them 

 Watching Bibi say something doesn't make it true.

And history isn't irrelevant either, far from it.

It's the best way to judge whether bombing countries actually improves security or creates the next conflict.

Without history, we lose the lessons of past mistakes.

We forget what caused previous conflicts.

Ignoring it does not create a new reality.

It risks repeating the same errors with even greater consequences...