Trump says he bombed Iran

[govshill2]

[CriticalStinker]

I agree, and got right on here and was very vocal about the fuckery that this was. I hated it so much, that I invested in this forum to keep it alive just so we could all continue to debate and discuss it. Thats how mad this war  made me bro, I fucking spent money for the right of us all to keep griping about it. Your welcome btw.

However, that was  out of our control, and we have to learn to just accept it, and focus on what we can change or who we can educate or what we can expose in the process. I believe that the Iran war made the Israeli genocides and crimes against humanity full center on the global stage, where Israeli can no longer blackmail all the world's coordinated media anymore to control the narrative. Mind you this is still  their plot, they are openly discussing how to control the narrative in different countries on their own TV shows, it is pretty sick honestly.

However I judge by actions, and a $300 billion dollar loan agreement with interest payments > $1billion+ of free cash with no interwst  payments is just simple math. only emotional interests, like European society finally realizing they no longer rule the world through political extortion and market manipulation after 500 years are being critical of this stuff. Of course that is the message their loyal media (shareholder control and loyalties to non-corporate entities) are going to use to try and continue their brainwashing tactics. These criticism are produced with very intentional settings, sounds, and repetitive  hypnotic messaging. 

You think the rulers of the world are just going to forego using the knowledge of 200 years of psychology and 100 years of neuro-science as propaganda weapons when they need to maintain power? The most critical voices are coming from Europe and Israel, period! It is quite obviousy what the motives are. Money laundering and market manipulation control they are consistently losing as a result of American power projection.

Conflict is 90% money, and only 10% ideology. That is just arbitrary quantitative characterization on  my part. The point is, all conflicts are exclusively about money, everything else is just the sell for the populations, including the criticisms by third parties who sit and watch from the sidelines with feigned moral authority.

Ballistic missiles, nuclear dust, terrorism ; those are nothing  more than the sell. We have known this for the twenty+ years on ATS, and double that  from the observable experiences of life; so why do people keep parroting the BS is beyond me. I think many conflicts can be solved quicker if everyone just focuses on the reality that these are always money related. Taxable land, transit fees, open markets, resource control,  insurance etc.. etc.. 

Lloyds of London is certainly going to be upset that a safe Hormuz would mean insurance rates go damn near obsolete in pricing premiums.

it is ALWAYS the money, EVERY time. Now, let us hope Israel does not thwart the danger of peace breaking out in the Middle East as it always does now that global media no longer runs cover for them. Israel cannot justify any of its evil expansionist priorities with a peaceful middle east, period.

I think you bring up some interesting points, many of which I agree with.

We may not agree on a minority of those, but I appreciate you showing your math. That is where discourse is lacking, not just on this site but as a society.

[worldstarcountry]

We just got to remember, we are not angry with each  other, we are angry at leaders making not the best choices in our names. Even when minds clouded in darkness choose to willingly obfuscate this and degenerate to personal pettiness, as long as enough of us stay strong and don't eat the bait we can continue to guide the discussion in a positive direction.  I notice you are really good at that as well, and I appreciate it.

Just keep it on the facts, ignore the insults. Ignoring the insults takes away its power over our mind on the spot. Best not to give away our energy to those misguided who relish in their own misery and the misery of others.

[EXETER]

but what about Iran not allowing IAEA access to some areas 

What about it?  The areas they did not allow unrestricted access to were military bases, not the civilian sites where all the uranium processing took place. Maybe you can explain in a few complete sentences (you know, with nouns and verbs and things) exactly why you think that was an important enough issue to scuttle the JCPOA?

The JCPOA was negotiated primarily by the P5+1 nations.  That's the US, Russia, France, the UK, China, and Germany.  The P5 are the 5 permanent members of the UN Security Council, and probably more importantly, were the major leading nuclear-armed nations of the planet, at the time. All of them had an interest in preventing Iran from becoming nuclear-armed.  That's why they all got together to work out the Agreement in the first place even though they had major geopolitical differences with each other.  And because they were all nuclear-armed nations, they knew exactly what was important and not important along the road to getting nuclear weapons.  So they all had their own nuclear weapons experts down in the trenches of the negotiations working out the details of the Agreement. (I would hasten to point out that that is quite different from the way Trump has been handling things; he had his real estate developer and Wikipedia-educated part-time nuclear physicist son-in-law personally work out all the details). 

To simplify things a bit, all practical paths to nuclear weapons go through uranium, in one form or another.   Either you enrich it to make a uranium bomb or you put it into a breeder reactor to make a plutonium bomb.  Control the uranium and you control the ability of a nation to get a bomb. The JCPOA terminated both paths in Iran.  The one reactor that they had under development that would have been capable of breeding plutonium was permanently modified, under inspection, so that it could not.  Their stockpile of heavy water was also limited so that there would be no sneak paths to plutonium.  During the first year or two of the negotiations, all of Iran's pre-existing uranium inventory was meticulously accounted for, down to the level of grams.  That was to assure that when the Agreement finally went into effect, there was no secret stash that would give them a sneak path to a uranium bomb.  

From the standpoint of the US, it would have been nice if we could have gotten rights to unannounced inspections of Iran's military bases for reasons other than nuclear weapons, but the fact that we didn't did not make the JCPOA less secure.

[govshill2]

What about it?  The areas they did not allow unrestricted access to were military bases, not the civilian sites where all the uranium processing took place. Maybe you can explain in a few complete sentences (you know, with nouns and verbs and things) exactly why you think that was an important enough issue to scuttle the JCPOA?

The JCPOA was negotiated primarily by the P5+1 nations.  That's the US, Russia, France, the UK, China, and Germany.  The P5 are the 5 permanent members of the UN Security Council, and probably more importantly, were the major leading nuclear-armed nations of the planet, at the time. All of them had an interest in preventing Iran from becoming nuclear-armed.  That's why they all got together to work out the Agreement in the first place even though they had major geopolitical differences with each other.  And because they were all nuclear-armed nations, they knew exactly what was important and not important along the road to getting nuclear weapons.  So they all had their own nuclear weapons experts down in the trenches of the negotiations working out the details of the Agreement. (I would hasten to point out that that is quite different from the way Trump has been handling things; he had his real estate developer and Wikipedia-educated part-time nuclear physicist son-in-law personally work out all the details). 

To simplify things a bit, all practical paths to nuclear weapons go through uranium, in one form or another.   Either you enrich it to make a uranium bomb or you put it into a breeder reactor to make a plutonium bomb.  Control the uranium and you control the ability of a nation to get a bomb. The JCPOA terminated both paths in Iran.  The one reactor that they had under development that would have been capable of breeding plutonium was permanently modified, under inspection, so that it could not.  Their stockpile of heavy water was also limited so that there would be no sneak paths to plutonium.  During the first year or two of the negotiations, all of Iran's pre-existing uranium inventory was meticulously accounted for, down to the level of grams.  That was to assure that when the Agreement finally went into effect, there was no secret stash that would give them a sneak path to a uranium bomb.  

From the standpoint of the US, it would have been nice if we could have gotten rights to unannounced inspections of Iran's military bases for reasons other than nuclear weapons, but the fact that we didn't did not make the JCPOA less secure.

Solid comfort that Iran never stored any nuke materials at military bases. Iran never stored any they may have bought from foreign countries either.  Yup.   

[SteamyAmerican]

Solid comfort that Iran never stored any nuke materials at military bases. Iran never stored any they may have bought from foreign countries either.  Yup.   

Wait, what?!

Why would Israel sell Iran nuclear material?

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

it is ALWAYS the money, EVERY time. Now, let us hope Israel does not thwart the danger of peace breaking out in the Middle East as it always does now that global media no longer runs cover for them. Israel cannot justify any of its evil expansionist priorities with a peaceful middle east, period.

You know, I dont think the evil Israel narrative is as front and center to this as it used to be.

Israel just got to go after Hezbollah hiding in christian villages in Lebanon...  Killed another 3750 people made of militants and many more human shields.

That outrage took less than 5% of the world's commentary, and that extended to MSM news coverage too, so everyone spare me the force-fed Evil Israel mantra this time.

Most was about Trump, and when they were about Israel, they were more often about Bibi with his hand up Trump's ass in Iran.  Which says more for an underlying global mistrust of Israel... only this time THE WEST did more of that then The Gulf States - who were too busy doing a dance of status quo and quietly aligning behind the scenes for the end game. 

Israel and the Gulf States—particularly the UAE and Bahrain—engaged in significant, albeit quiet, security and intelligence coordination during the war. Driven by a mutual, deep-rooted threat from Iran, the two sides actively cooperated while publicly balancing diplomatic pressure and popular sentiments.

Intelligence Sharing: Gulf nations, especially the UAE, quietly assisted Israel by providing vital signals intelligence and sharing analytical assessments of Iranian movements and threats.

Regional Security Summits: Classified military and security meetings occurred between senior defense officials from Israel, the U.S., and several Arab states (including Qatar, Bahrain, and Jordan) to coordinate regional defense infrastructure.

Say whatever, but I think peace is more possible then ever because how everything found its mutual interest of defense and secular society, but also obscene luxury, class segregated airport terminals, and Arab oil money Gentrification. 

With all that objectivist coordination outrage over Lebanon was almost NON-EXISTANT in Gulf Media. It  has never been so downplayed as it was during this. They still played their critical role, called for peace, showed solidarity with Arabs, reaffirmed their right to soveirnty, but did it all as two-faced as ever. 

I honestly dont think Israel was ever going to mess this up because they were given carte blanche into Lebanon all along.  And Iran expressed the most vocal outrage. 

Crickets in UAE. Crickets in Bahrain. Not even close to the global organized protest seen after 10/7.

Gulf States might as well say; "No, stop Israel, dont do that!" out load as they say, "Okay, so when do we get to build the refinery on the coast across from Dubai?" quietly. 

At very least, "Throw investment at them until they go away again." 

We could have just been played by the capitalism of the Abraham Accords to crush the warrior tribes and get on with regional business.

[BeyondKnowledge]

Wait, what?!

Why would Israel sell Iran nuclear material?

You are saying the former USSR did not sell any nukes. Do you guarantee it?

When the USSR broke up, for a time Russia could not pay it's soldiers. Some equipment was sold off to pay them. There was not a lot of security about the military equipment because the security forces weren't getting paid either.

How do you know none of that equipment was not nuclear bombs?

Now of Iran got one of these, they would study it and keep it hidden until they could make more and then move it to somewhere they really hated before using it. They are crazy about weapons use but not that stupid about it.

They may have bought it without the nuclear core just to make transporting it easier. It would not set off Geiger counters that way.

[govshill2]

Already they start in!!!   
Drugged-up BS
 ""BREAKING | Mojtaba Khamenei: If US Is Too Demanding, We Will Not Accept Deal""

[govshill2]

Wait, what?!

Why would Israel sell Iran nuclear material?