The never ending question, the Giza pyramids

[KKLoco]

But we do have archaeology and those folks and their alleged technology don't show up anywhere. Whereas the real technology shows up all over the place. "Amnesia", no we only usually remember remember stuff that is important. I'm pretty sure you don't know your 1,000 direct line mother's name was? Nor even the 100th, maybe the 10th do you have amnesia? I can track family names back to 1684 but after that nothing.

What tech would be left from 40.000 years ago? Nothing would. Everything degrades on this planet. 40,000 yeas is more than enough time for it to disappear. Additionally, who's to say it was tech at all? Maybe they just used instruments. 

In fact, we even have recent first hand accounts of levitating heavy granite blocks.

[Nerb]

Perhaps an interesting discussion might be had about the monumental stupidity and absolute waste of resources regarding building it.

And why such clever people with mathematics, engineering and logistical skills would have been party to that nonsense.

Just like The Millenium Dome in London eh?

[SurferSoul]

Are you referring to Ollantaytambo? I was there recently. Here is photograph of the quarry from the unfinished sun temple https://i.imgur.com/W2eD1HB.jpg. I walked the route, mostly down hill to the river then crossing that then up a hill. Modern construction disrupts the path after the river. Hard work but the ground is mainly rock so the Inca method of dragging rocks without sled would have worked

Not sure it does look similar, but the name doesn’t sound familiar at all. normally I know the names of things when someone else says them, otherwise I just can’t seem to recall them for some reason. (Lesser used names thankfully, mostly;) 
dragging rocks produces a great deal of friction. I’m sure they were smart enough to find a better way. 

I noticed how in that breakdown of Egyptian civilisation they said this:

 

• c. 5000 BC: Alleged archaeoastronomical stone megalith in Nabta Playa.
  

 I have a book on this very subject, only just bought it so haven’t read it yet. But saying it’s “alleged” when it is primarily written by an Astro-Physicist seems harsh. Then I suppose things must be peer reviewed or at least provable. Regardless hopefully it will be an interesting read.

[Harte]

I was under the impression that it is generally accepted that many of the vases are pre-dynastic. That they were heirlooms? 

That's true.

What other cultures do you speak of going back 40,000 years in the Nile Valley? I would like to learn more about these? 

Hans said 4500 BCE, not 40,000 years ago.

Also I’m sure you are aware that the erosion of the Sphinx enclosure, indicates erosion from rain fall and lots of it. The era when this would have occurred is around 10,000bc from memory. Also some astrological alinements have some claiming the sites are much older than accepted.
Whatever the Sphinx was originally, clearly it didn’t have the out of proportion human head. Which must have been carved at a later date. As it’s tiny and looks silly in comparison to the body.

Schoch's date for the construction of the sphinx doesn't rely on "dating by erosion," which, when (if ever) it's used, can be no more precise than plus or minus 50,000 years.
The recognition of Leo as a lion isn't any older than Babylonia. Prior to that, it was recognized by the Akkadians as the "Big Dog."
Egypt didn't recognize ANY zodiacal constellations, and only very few of the many other constellations.

There are two legitimate reasons for the head being out of proportion.

Harte

[Harte]

IIRC from one of my books, one argument against the manual rope dragging all of these multi hundreds of ton blocks uphill to the site at Ollyontetombo sic is that the turns are too sharp and the cliff too steep too allow enough people with ropes enough space to even stand and work there, let alone have the force to drag them up a mountain.    The people wouldn't fit. 
Furthermore the friction involved would have left markings on the stones which we do not see.

The stones all show scars from dragging, in places that aren't supposed to be exposed. The exposed scarring was cleared off by pecking and rubbing with abrasives, the same way many of the nubs were removed.

At Ollantaytambo, at Sacsayhuaman, AND at Puma Punku (Tiwanaku,) quarried stones were left abandoned along the path from the quarry to the construction site.

Harte

[Harte]

What tech would be left from 40.000 years ago? Nothing would. Everything degrades on this planet. 40,000 yeas is more than enough time for it to disappear. Additionally, who's to say it was tech at all? Maybe they just used instruments. 

In fact, we even have recent first hand accounts of levitating heavy granite blocks.

[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03JZjh9dD84]

Surely you must realize how much power would be required to levitate a stone monolith. I mean, it's not hard to calculate.
Imagine a sound with the amount of energy in it capable of such a feat.
Anyone within earshot would be killed by the sound alone.

Harte

[Shoshanna]

We shall assume the Ancient Egyptians did not build the pyramids. One day they walked out of the drying Sahara, somewhere circa 4,500 BCE, and found all those building: all the pyramids, all the granite, limestone and sandstone structure and megalithic temples from one end of the Nile to the other, all the fantastic stone vases and statues too all just sitting there not a soul around. 

So, what is the evidence that the fringe claims it has, that any of these objects or constructions predated 4,500BCE and what evidence do we have for the mysterious builders like we do for the other cultures in the Nile valley going back 40,000 years?

I watched a documentary that featured John Anthony West basically talking about water erosion vs. Wind erosion and how the Sphinx appears to have water erosion instead of from wind so it would be much much older than commonly thought. I don't know what to believe I mean the photos and the geologist that was in this documentary were convincing but I feel like in order to form my own opinion I'd have to be a geologist myself.

Personally I think if the Egyptians built the pyramids they either used a lot of manpower and ingenuity OR they had some kind of electromagnetic technology to move the giant stones that has been lost to the ages.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

We shall assume the Ancient Egyptians did not build the pyramids. One day they walked out of the drying Sahara, somewhere circa 4,500 BCE, and found all those building: all the pyramids, all the granite, limestone and sandstone structure and megalithic temples from one end of the Nile to the other, all the fantastic stone vases and statues too all just sitting there not a soul around. 

So, what is the evidence that the fringe claims it has, that any of these objects or constructions predated 4,500BCE and what evidence do we have for the mysterious builders like we do for the other cultures in the Nile valley going back 40,000 years?

I think we don't give Ancient Egypt enough credit for their ingenuity. And I think we need to rewrite our view of the use of simple machines in the bronze age.

Lever, wheel/axel, inclined plane, screw, and wedge. Throw on counterbalance lift and buoyancy too.

I support the canal + grand gallery counterbalance + internal ramp method.

Build canals to go between the worksite and Nile to the downstream but still close quarry. Then build it layer by layer employing a spiral four sided internal ramp.  Evidence is found by notches that exist at the corners and scans showing spiral cavities.



The granite cover stones for the kings tomb were lifted using the a track running through the out of place grand gallery as a counterweight. There is grease residue still there. Even possible evidence of a verticle shaft between the grand gallery toward the lower chambers exists as well. Even a smooth rope worn notch at the top. They built it all top exposed. 

There is also the enclosed space directly above the grand galley at the same Inclination and weird size.  Something likely built for the same mechanical purposes like the granite cap stones to the chamber.  

They used the structure if the pyramid itself like a crane anyway the could. Star shafts? Construction shafts. Many left to be discovered. 

All simple machines. Simple concepts. And if I was a billionaire I could build a replica using the simple machines and a workforce of less than 10,000 unskilled laborers that can follow directions.

If they'd let that hypothetical me build a canal from the bottom of the ramp to the Nile and let me use a river-adjacent quary I could send an army of blocks on barges  into place to be dragged up an internal ramp by sled, a word Egyptians have 3 different hyroglyphs for..

Just look at their pictogram language. They tell us they used date tree cranes to lift the single blocks on to barges and another at the end on the canal they floated them down to lift them on to sleds. 

If you can lift and float a granite obelisk with tree cranes, you can float a sandstone block many times lighter. 

Presto. No aliens or crazy shit needed. Quicker than you'd think. You just gotta think, "What would i do to do this as easy as possible?".

[Hanslune]

IIRC from one of my books, one argument against the manual rope dragging all of these multi hundreds of ton blocks uphill to the site at Ollyontetombo sic is that the turns are too sharp and the cliff too steep too allow enough people with ropes enough space to even stand and work there, let alone have the force to drag them up a mountain.    The people wouldn't fit. 
Furthermore the friction involved would have left markings on the stones which we do not see.

It didn't see difficult from a direct drag point of view but then I was just walking it and not pulling however the stones were moved, the inca are reported to have dragged stones without sleds and did so also when working for the Spanish. I'd have to see where some one has plotted this out and whether its just wishful thinking. While the weight of the rope is important it doesn't mean you have to right next to the rock you are dragging. The Nias dragged stones up hills but they used sledges: https://i.imgur.com/Y2LZMyC.jpg, https://i.imgur.com/OReaDRi.jpg, https://i.imgur.com/1Dt6y2A.jpg, https://i.imgur.com/MeQFVBI.jpg

[Hanslune]

I watched a documentary that featured John Anthony West basically talking about water erosion vs. Wind erosion and how the Sphinx appears to have water erosion instead of from wind so it would be much much older than commonly thought. I don't know what to believe I mean the photos and the geologist that was in this documentary were convincing but I feel like in order to form my own opinion I'd have to be a geologist myself.

Personally I think if the Egyptians built the pyramids they either used a lot of manpower and ingenuity OR they had some kind of electromagnetic technology to move the giant stones that has been lost to the ages.

Yeah the problem with the erosion idea is that we don't know what the erosion rate is over thousands of year in the particular situation the sphinx is in. I was at Giza one afternoon when a short intense rain shower hit, the water ran down the ridge into the Sphinx enclosure and was full of dust and sand - and that was followed by a Khamsin, a sand storm, so yeah you had erosion but the rate is the problem.