The Great Flood — Myth, Memory, or Something In Between?

[andy06shake]

Then again there is the clear genetic evidence that Europe lost 90% of its population 5000 years ago and a new language spread throughout Europe and West Asia, which forms the basis of most of Europe's languages today.  

The reason people put to sea for a year with a boatload of animals may have been lost.

I think there is evidence that suggests that major population shifts occurred in Europe around 5,000 years ago.

Likely due to migrations from the Eurasian steppe, but not a catastrophic global flood.

As far as im can determine, the migrations introduced the indo-european languages.

There is simply no geological or archaeological record that supports a flood covering the world.

The story of Noah parallels the older Mesopotamian flood myths.

And putting to sea for a year is a bit of a stretch.

As no civilisation back then had ships capable of surviving a year at sea.

Especially not while carrying pairs of every animal.

Ancient vessels were river barges or coastal boats, not ocean-going arks.

The story's logistics, food, waste, ventilation, and animal care, are simply impossible the way it is told.

[DBCowboy]

This thread spun off from my Bible Translations post, which somehow turned into sixteen pages of flood debates (linking it HERE for anyone who wants to catch up).
That conversation got heated, sure — but it also showed how deep and layered the topic really is. So rather than keep hijacking that one, here’s a fresh thread dedicated entirely to The Great Flood.

Round two begins below:

It only made sense to give this debate its own home.

So here it is — no sidetracks, no apologies. Let’s talk about the Flood.

Was it a literal event that nearly wiped out humanity — a real, remembered catastrophe that echoed through every ancient civilization? Or was it a regional disaster retold by people whose entire “world” stretched only as far as they could walk before the waters rose?

We’ve got geological evidence of massive floods in Mesopotamia around 7,000–5,000 years ago. Nearly every culture — Sumerian, Hebrew, Indian, Chinese, even Aboriginal Australian — has a flood story that follows the same pattern: judgment, destruction, mercy, and renewal. Coincidence? Or a shared memory of something the ancient world never forgot?

Of course, others point to continuous civilizations like Egypt and China and say that disproves a global flood. Fair. But even modern science is rethinking how fast adaptation and evolution can occur — some studies say up to four times fasterthan we thought. That changes the timeline for a lot of assumptions about population recovery and diversity.

And then there’s the spiritual angle: maybe the flood wasn’t just water, but a story meant to explain why humanity keeps collapsing and rebuilding — a cycle of destruction and grace.
Either way, the flood story refuses to die. So let’s have at it — evidence, theology, myth, and everything in between.

I think floods happened.

They still happen.

But the biblical story is an allegory, in my humble opinion.

[Solvedit]

 ​​​​
 If Noahs story was true, then everyone on the planet would be speaking Noahs language ... most likely Sumerian.   If Noahs story was true, then everyone on the planet would be worshipping Noahs god ... Yahweh (who was a tribal god of the Canannites and a son of EL and brother to BAAL).   

But we aren't.   So more evidence that the flood, as told by the bible, didn't happen.

If something a little bit like the story of the flood were literally true, then for a time, many people might have spoken a similar language and worshipped the same gods for a time. 

Consider researching Proto-Indo-European, also called Proto-Indo-Aryan.  It is the basis of most of Europe's and some of West Asia's languages.  

Consider buying the August 2019 back issue of National Geographic.  It describes the migrations which shape Europe and is consistent with a huge population turnover 5,000 years ago.  Or, simply view a few minutes of PBS Nova's The First Horse Warriors, and fast forward to 36 minutes and 12 seconds.

[FlyersFan]

If something a little bit like the story of the flood were literally true, then for a time, many people might have spoken a similar language and worshipped the same gods for a time. 

But they didn't ... at any time.   
No one was speaking Sumerian and no one was worshipping Yahweh.  
The cultures around the world continued on uninterrupted.

20 minutes.   Straight up facts.   Give it a try ... 
Archeology Disproves the Flood

Lets take Egypt for example.   Supposedly a few of Noahs grandchildren moved there.   They would have been speaking Sumerian and worshipping the God that saved them ... Yahweh.   But suddenly upon arrival in Egypt they ditched the God that saved them and ditched their native language and suddenly took up the Egyptian gods and the Egyptian language ...     Seriously?   That's absurd.

[Solvedit]

The story of Noah parallels the older Mesopotamian flood myths.

You've missed my point. I'm not saying it was a flood. I am saying the later accounts don't really remember the point of putting to sea for a long time.

And putting to sea for a year is a bit of a stretch.

As no civilisation back then had ships capable of surviving a year at sea.

There is no need to assume they remember the exact amount of elapsed time if they don't remember the point or didn't recount the point. If they were self-quarantining, they could have landed to gather supplies from time to time. Some of them probably got bitten by plague-infested fleas and died if they did that.

Especially not while carrying pairs of every animal.

If later generations lost the point, especially because only a few of the original inhabitants of the area survived, then they embellished the account, like the game of telephone you cited. Only a few survived, and they were probably far apart from each other and did not get together to agree upon and write down their accounts.

They probably would have carried food and breeding pairs of animals which they wanted to raise for food when the plague subsided.

Ancient vessels were river barges or coastal boats, not ocean-going arks.

Some were probably lost in storms for sure. It is not something people would have done if they had a better choice. You're thinking it would not have been a good idea to try to spend a long time at sea in such a craft, but what if there were no other choices? And what if they could land from time to time to gather supplies and fresh water? Some of them were probably lost due to running in to plague carrying insects, animals, or people.

Perhaps the accounts do correctly remember that the people knew they would have to be at sea for a long time. Perhaps some of them were able to construct vessels which were designed to store food, water, and animals instead of ply coastal trade routes or fish.

The story's logistics, food, waste, ventilation, and animal care, are simply impossible the way it is told.

In Moses' time, many of the details may have been forgotten.  Plus, nautical people at the time would have known how to fish.  Castaways have survived months and months at sea in recent times, and they probably had less knowledge of how to make their living from the world around them than ancient fishermen.

[Solvedit]

But they didn't ... at any time.   
No one was speaking Sumerian and no one was worshipping Yahweh.  
The cultures around the world continued on uninterrupted.

20 minutes.   Straight up facts.   Give it a try ... 
Archeology Disproves the Flood

Lets take Egypt for example.   Supposedly a few of Noahs grandchildren moved there.   They would have been speaking Sumerian and worshipping the God that saved them ... Yahweh.   But suddenly upon arrival in Egypt they ditched the God that saved them and ditched their native language and suddenly took up the Egyptian gods and the Egyptian language ...     Seriously?   That's absurd.

The Biblical narrative took place long after distinct cultures could have developed.

Europe lost 90% of their population, not 100%.  The remaining 10% could have had a disproportionate impact on culture and religion than the vanguard of settlers that moved out of the land of the Yamnaya because the ones who survived were probably the ones who had the most freedom to prepare to quarantine or flee with supplies and who lived in less crowded conditions.

You are drastically overreaching.  There is strong evidence of a huge cultural, linguistic, and genetic shift 5000 years ago.  And there is no need to assume 100% of the survivors came from one ship in the sea and their descendants adhered to their language and religion 100% thousands of years later.

[FlyersFan]

You are drastically overreaching.  

No.  You are.   
You didn't watch the 20 minute video on archeology, did you?
Noahs Flood supposedly happened 2348BC.   That's 4300 years ago.
The world is not speaking Sumerian.   The world isn't all worshipping Yahweh.   
And it never did except in the Levant and for a limited time.

[FlyersFan]

The Biblical narrative took place long after distinct cultures could have developed.

Distinct cultures were present before the Noahs Flood timeline (2348BC)
And distinct cultures were present after the Noahs Flood timeline.
There was no interruption.  No change of culture, language, or religion.
Again ... watch the archeology video .. 20 minutes ... educate yourself.

[schuyler]

And dioramas!

DIORAMAS, schuyler!

wow. dioramas. A few 2x4's, some canvas and some paint. That's more impressive than the believers in this thread.

[Solvedit]

No.  You are.   
You didn't watch the 20 minute video on archeology, did you?
Noahs Flood supposedly happened 2348BC.   That's 4300 years ago.
The world is not speaking Sumerian.   The world isn't all worshipping Yahweh.   
And it never did except in the Levant and for a limited time.

They were probably speaking Proto-Indo-Aryan and whether you like it or not, you are speaking a descendant of Proto-Indo-Aryan.  

So is almost all the rest of Europe, West Asia, and the New World.  

When did the Hebrews get their laws and rules?  Did Noah bring the Ark of the Covenant onto Noah's Ark? 

Biblical Judaism was by no means completely unique in the ancient world.