Teacher was fired for refusing to call children by their preferred pronouns

[ANNEE]

Transgenderism is a sexual orientation. 

GENDER -- it's about gender.

However -- we are talking about teenagers.  Teenagers are rampant sexual beings.

[ANNEE]

Bullying and teenage suicides because of bullying are off the charts...these days if my child were to be seriously affected by this alone I'd probably pull them out of school.  

Every child in school today is a number.  They use their number to log into online instruction, and for other needs/activities.

But kids themselves are so varied -- "equal" kind of gets wobbly.  However, since almost everything is electronic/online -- academics today are more equal than in the past.  No teacher's pet  

I agree on bullying.  I'd have my kid pulled so fast -- heads would spin.  If the school didn't adequately handle it.

I'm dealing with Autism/ADHD/Gender variant.  I have every person's email that is involved in his education -- and am not afraid to use them.  You have to advocate for your kid -- with direct politeness.

[l0st]

GENDER -- it's about gender.

However -- we are talking about teenagers.  Teenagers are rampant sexual beings.

If it's all about gender then why has the movement hijacked causes related to SEXUAL orientation?

[putnam6]

Every child in school today is a number.  They use their number to log into online instruction, and for other needs/activities.

But kids themselves are so varied -- "equal" kind of gets wobbly.  However, since almost everything is electronic/online -- academics today are more equal than in the past.  No teacher's pet  

I agree on bullying.  I'd have my kid pulled so fast -- heads would spin.  If the school didn't adequately handle it.

I'm dealing with Autism/ADHD/Gender variant.  I have every person's email that is involved in his education -- and am not afraid to use them.  You have to advocate for your kid -- with direct politeness.

Hey Annee good to see you here...it's all about the limited amount of classroom time

I was kind of joking on using numbers, as an extreme measure to get away from school being disrupted and our teachers actually teaching all students. ie the teacher, substitute or not has a list of the students and their number. When calling roll the calls the number and voila no more problem. Much easier than remembering each person's pronouns, especially for a substitute. 

It's not easy being a teacher, we have 3 teachers in our family, one just retired. They have always stressed trying to limit anything that takes a way from actual classroom time. So when societal changes pop up, these disruptions make a difference.

One reason most private schools they were uniforms, it's not to mesh anybody into a mold it's just if we celebrate everybody's individuality there is no time for actual learning. 

Generally, our children's quality of education is dropping lower and lower, some would say thats how they want them to be. But we are falling behind the rest of the world, how does Europe or Asia handle this type of issue?

 10 Countries with Best World Education Rank:
(Score of 1 is the highest possible score)
1. Iceland - 0.938
2. Germany - 0.917
3. New Zealand - 0.914
4. Norway - 0.912
5. Denmark - 0.909
6. Finland - 0.907
7. Switzerland - 0.902
8. United Kingdom - 0.901
9. Slovenia - 0.898
10. Australia - 0.896

[l0st]

Hey Annee good to see you here...it's all about the limited amount of classroom time

I was kind of joking on using numbers, as an extreme measure to get away from school being disrupted and our teachers actually teaching all students. ie the teacher, substitute or not has a list of the students and their number. When calling roll the calls the number and voila no more problem. Much easier than remembering each person's pronouns, especially for a substitute. 

It's not easy being a teacher, we have 3 teachers in our family, one just retired. They have always stressed trying to limit anything that takes a way from actual classroom time. So when societal changes pop up, these disruptions make a difference.

One reason most private schools they were uniforms, it's not to mesh anybody into a mold it's just if we celebrate everybody's individuality there is no time for actual learning. 

Generally, our children's quality of education is dropping lower and lower, some would say thats how they want them to be. But we are falling behind the rest of the world, how does Europe or Asia handle this type of issue?

 10 Countries with Best World Education Rank:
(Score of 1 is the highest possible score)
1. Iceland - 0.938
2. Germany - 0.917
3. New Zealand - 0.914
4. Norway - 0.912
5. Denmark - 0.909
6. Finland - 0.907
7. Switzerland - 0.902
8. United Kingdom - 0.901
9. Slovenia - 0.898
10. Australia - 0.896

I personally don't think its at all reasonable to expect anyone to remember one of the 96 pronouns for each student. Calling people numbers is insulting and degrading. These kids aren't in prison or s concentration camp.

People remember the standard pronouns because there are only two and they coincide with visual appearance.

I keep asking questions on threads on this topic for years now and notice I NEVER seem to get straight answers or more often than not bo answers at all. It certainly appears that members of this movement seem to think they have the right to dictate to others.

Adult life is not a parent-child relationship. Nobody has to follow this movement's edicts by decree.

So here are the questions again:

Where are all the kindergarten activists?
Why was this not in issue in my childhood?
If the gender changes are real, why the need for life long pharmaceuticals?
Why do we need new bathrooms?
Why do we need 96 new pronouns?
Why has the movement hijacked causes related to sexual orientation when the claim is that the issue is non-sexual?
What rights does this group claim are being restricted?
Why is there a causal link between child transgenderism and parents with Borderline Personality Disorder?
Why is the rate of narcissistic sociopathy in this group so high? I read a study that said 87% of this group is diagnosed with a dark triad disorder.
Why does this group claim no mental illness when the condition is listed in the DSM?
Why is the desire to cut off one's hand or arm considered a serious medical emergency but desire to cut off one's genitals considered perfectly normal?

See, I think these are legitimate questions and frankly, they're the same ones a lot of people outside this movement also have. The fact that this movement simply ignores these questions is in my opinion a huge red flag, and the lack of response is a disservice to members of that community.





I think I already know what the answer is though, and I don't get answers because these are very uncomfortable questions for proponents of these treatments because they may shed light on the fact that things might not be as they seem.

[ANNEE]

Hey Annee good to see you here...it's all about the limited amount of classroom time

I was kind of joking on using numbers, . . . 

Thanks for welcoming me.

Hush Hush Secret:  I didn't really take your number idea seriously 

Not every child is a "student".  Like for my kid -- academia -- is least important compared to self-esteem, socialization, etc.

What is a teacher today?  How much actual "teaching" do they do?  Almost everything is automated and online.

We've all heard "Square Peg -- Round Hole" -- are we finally doing something about it? 

Are we finally accepting we are born who we are -- and not everyone fits the standard social indoctrinations.

I swear most of us spend our lives trying to rid ourselves of the indoctrinations that were forced on us by parents and society. Trying to discover who we really are.

Imagine -- just being allowed "to be" from birth -- discovering your likes and dislikes without being herded into a "box".

And BTW -- I am actually more conservative than that sounds -- but I'm not STUCK in antiquated routines of social acceptability.

"That which is not earned has no value"

And I support school uniforms 

[putnam6]

Thanks for welcoming me.

Hush Hush Secret:  I didn't really take your number idea seriously 

Not every child is a "student".  Like for my kid -- academia -- is least important compared to self-esteem, socialization, etc.

What is a teacher today?  How much actual "teaching" do they do?  Almost everything is automated and online.

We've all heard "Square Peg -- Round Hole" -- are we finally doing something about it? 

Are we finally accepting we are born who we are -- and not everyone fits the standard social indoctrinations.

I swear most of us spend our lives trying to rid ourselves of the indoctrinations that were forced on us by parents and society. Trying to discover who we really are.

Imagine -- just being allowed "to be" from birth -- discovering your likes and dislikes without being herded into a "box".

And BTW -- I am actually more conservative than that sounds -- but I'm not STUCK in antiquated routines of social acceptability.

"That which is not earned has no value"

And I support school uniforms 

You can't ever tell these days if somebody is going to get my humor or not.

I agree 100 percent different methods for different types of children, but to be effective children of the same types of needs have to be grouped together. If not the teacher winds up scrambling with the different types within thier limited time. 

 Respectfully online only works with certain types of students, I'll use ClaudeAI for the bullet points because Ive heard all 3 of the teachers point these problems out. Especially the 2 still working after COVID lockdowns. The consensus they loved online for the ease of use, but it was sorely lacking in different areas for all groups and types of students atleast in thier experience. Perhaps in the future, virtual reality but as it is now, generally the upper to middle-class students have a higher percentage than the other students who struggle to catch up, and it's more difficult to identify when and know why a child is struggling. 

In the report below states that 60% of the students were 1-3 months behind just after the first lockdowns


Here's a report contemporaneous to the lockdowns, that backs up while online has value, in the US we are even close to being set where every child gets equal access and certainly the environment needed to excel at learning. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-0...12-7#Sec16

Why lockdown and distance learning during the COVID-19 pandemic are likely to increase the social class achievement gapThe research discussed in this article suggests that there are good reasons to predict that this period of school closures will accelerate the reproduction of social inequalities in educational achievement.
 
By making school learning less dependent on teachers and more dependent on families and digital tools and resources, school closures are likely to greatly amplify social class inequalities.

At a time when many countries are experiencing second, third or fourth waves of the pandemic, resulting in fresh periods of local or general lockdowns, systematic efforts to test these predictions are urgently needed along with steps to reduce the impact of school closures on the social class achievement gap.
 

https://claude.ai/chat/10eaca4d-f211-4ad...d8756d0785
 

Online classes for grades K-12 can work well for some students, but they also present several challenges compared to in-person instruction. Here are some key points about the effectiveness of online learning for K-12 students:
Pros:

• Flexibility and convenience for students who may have difficulties attending in-person classes due to health issues, travel requirements, or other circumstances.
  
• Access to a wider range of course offerings, especially for students in rural areas or those seeking niche subjects.
  
• Ability to review recorded lessons and work at one's own pace.
  
• Development of important skills like time management, self-motivation, and independent learning.
  

Cons:

• Lack of face-to-face interaction and hands-on activities, which can be particularly challenging for younger students and those requiring more guidance.
  
• Potential for distractions and lack of structure at home, making it harder for some students to stay focused and engaged.
  
• Technological barriers, such as limited access to reliable internet or devices, which can exacerbate educational inequities.
  
• Difficulty in replicating the social and emotional learning experiences of a traditional classroom setting.
  

Overall, the effectiveness of online classes for K-12 students depends on various factors, including the student's age, learning style, self-discipline, and access to support systems. While online learning can be a viable option for some, it may not be ideal for all students, particularly those in the early elementary grades or those who thrive better in a more structured, in-person environment.
Successful implementation often requires significant parental involvement, access to necessary technology, and well-designed online curricula that incorporate interactive elements and opportunities for feedback and support.

[putnam6]

I personally don't think its at all reasonable to expect anyone to remember one of the 96 pronouns for each student. Calling people numbers is insulting and degrading. These kids aren't in prison or s concentration camp.

People remember the standard pronouns because there are only two and they coincide with visual appearance.

I keep asking questions on threads on this topic for years now and notice I NEVER seem to get straight answers or more often than not bo answers at all. It certainly appears that members of this movement seem to think they have the right to dictate to others.

Adult life is not a parent-child relationship. Nobody has to follow this movement's edicts by decree.

So here are the questions again:

Where are all the kindergarten activists?
Why was this not in issue in my childhood?
If the gender changes are real, why the need for life long pharmaceuticals?
Why do we need new bathrooms?
Why do we need 96 new pronouns?
Why has the movement hijacked causes related to sexual orientation when the claim is that the issue is non-sexual?
What rights does this group claim are being restricted?
Why is there a causal link between child transgenderism and parents with Borderline Personality Disorder?
Why is the rate of narcissistic sociopathy in this group so high? I read a study that said 87% of this group is diagnosed with a dark triad disorder.
Why does this group claim no mental illness when the condition is listed in the DSM?
Why is the desire to cut off one's hand or arm considered a serious medical emergency but desire to cut off one's genitals considered perfectly normal?

See, I think these are legitimate questions and frankly, they're the same ones a lot of people outside this movement also have. The fact that this movement simply ignores these questions is in my opinion a huge red flag, and the lack of response is a disservice to members of that community.





I think I already know what the answer is though, and I don't get answers because these are very uncomfortable questions for proponents of these treatments because they may shed light on the fact that things might not be as they seem.

Respectfully as I pointed out to Annee I jokingly suggested the number system, to handle this absurd problem. As for it being insulting and degrading, that's just your hyperbolic thoughts, virtually no different than the person wanting to be called by their personal designer pronouns 

It was a substitute teacher, not a regular teacher. Doesn't sound as if there was difficulty with the regular teachers, so it was likely just a pissy student with a pissy substitute. Substitute teachers get abused a lot of times, even back in the day. 

My point generally is I'm against anything that disrupts or takes away from teachers actually teaching. If we bend to all the individual needs of the students there would be no time left for real teaching. 

As for your points most, valid or not don't even apply to this specific thread. It all comes down to the Wyoming Board of Education standards and practices. You know like actual state laws, and the less the DC is involved the better. Not sure if it was approved or not. 


https://cowboystatedaily.com › 2024 › 02 › 27 › senate-passes-bill-that-would-ban-forced-use-of-preferred-pronouns-in-wyomingBill Banning Forced Use Of Preferred Pronouns Passes Wyoming Senate
Feb 27, 2024A bill that would ban Wyoming state and county governments, along with public schools, from forcing people to use preferred gender pronouns passed the Senate on Tuesday and now moves to the House for consideration.

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/laws-o...nd/2023/05

Where are all the kindergarten activists? Does not apply
Why was this not in issue in my childhood? Does not apply the world changes 
If the gender changes are real, why the need for life long pharmaceuticals? Does not apply
Why do we need new bathrooms? Does not apply
Why do we need 96 new pronouns? Applies 
Why has the movement hijacked causes related to sexual orientation when the claim is that the issue is non-sexual? Does not apply
What rights does this group claim are being restricted? Marginal at best
Why is there a causal link between child transgenderism and parents with Borderline Personality Disorder?Does not apply
Why is the rate of narcissistic sociopathy in this group so high? I read a study that said 87% of this group is diagnosed with a dark triad disorder. Does not apply
Why does this group claim no mental illness when the condition is listed in the DSM? Does not apply
Why is the desire to cut off one's hand or arm considered a serious medical emergency but desire to cut off one's genitals considered perfectly normal? Does not apply

[l0st]

Respectfully as I pointed out to Annee I jokingly suggested the number system, to handle this absurd problem. As for it being insulting and degrading, that's just your hyperbolic thoughts, virtually no different than the person wanting to be called by their personal designer pronouns 

It was a substitute teacher, not a regular teacher. Doesn't sound as if there was difficulty with the regular teachers, so it was likely just a pissy student with a pissy substitute. Substitute teachers get abused a lot of times, even back in the day. 

My point generally is I'm against anything that disrupts or takes away from teachers actually teaching. If we bend to all the individual needs of the students there would be no time left for real teaching. 

As for your points most, valid or not don't even apply to this specific thread. It all comes down to the Wyoming Board of Education standards and practices. You know like actual state laws, and the less the DC is involved the better. Not sure if it was approved or not. 


[Image: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/...ly.com.ico]https://cowboystatedaily.com › 2024 › 02 › 27 › senate-passes-bill-that-would-ban-forced-use-of-preferred-pronouns-in-wyomingBill Banning Forced Use Of Preferred Pronouns Passes Wyoming Senate
Feb 27, 2024A bill that would ban Wyoming state and county governments, along with public schools, from forcing people to use preferred gender pronouns passed the Senate on Tuesday and now moves to the House for consideration.

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/laws-o...nd/2023/05

Where are all the kindergarten activists? Does not apply
Why was this not in issue in my childhood? Does not apply the world changes 
If the gender changes are real, why the need for life long pharmaceuticals? Does not apply
Why do we need new bathrooms? Does not apply
Why do we need 96 new pronouns? Applies 
Why has the movement hijacked causes related to sexual orientation when the claim is that the issue is non-sexual? Does not apply
What rights does this group claim are being restricted? Marginal at best
Why is there a causal link between child transgenderism and parents with Borderline Personality Disorder?Does not apply
Why is the rate of narcissistic sociopathy in this group so high? I read a study that said 87% of this group is diagnosed with a dark triad disorder. Does not apply
Why does this group claim no mental illness when the condition is listed in the DSM? Does not apply
Why is the desire to cut off one's hand or arm considered a serious medical emergency but desire to cut off one's genitals considered perfectly normal? Does not apply

And once again, the lack of responses illustrates my points. No wonder this group keeps losing in the courts, government, and public opinion. If you do not want to answer these questions then you're never going to get what you want because nobody understands where you're coming from with all this.

Every time these questions are asked they are simply dismissed by the transgender lobby as being "irrelevant". Well, hate to break it to you, they ARE relevant.

I'd love to see this lobby go to court and tell the judge they will not respond to the defendant's arguments because they are "irrelevant".

Here I am trying to gain a better understanding of the issues only to be repeatedly dismissed by those that can answer my questions.

Groups who refusebto answer serious questions have no credibility, and it certainly shows you're not here to have any kind of serious discussion. You're here to preach your beliefs to others. We don't have to accept your beliefs.

---

Thanks for welcoming me.

Hush Hush Secret:  I didn't really take your number idea seriously 

Not every child is a "student".  Like for my kid -- academia -- is least important compared to self-esteem, socialization, etc.

What is a teacher today?  How much actual "teaching" do they do?  Almost everything is automated and online.

We've all heard "Square Peg -- Round Hole" -- are we finally doing something about it? 

Are we finally accepting we are born who we are -- and not everyone fits the standard social indoctrinations.

I swear most of us spend our lives trying to rid ourselves of the indoctrinations that were forced on us by parents and society. Trying to discover who we really are.

Imagine -- just being allowed "to be" from birth -- discovering your likes and dislikes without being herded into a "box".

And BTW -- I am actually more conservative than that sounds -- but I'm not STUCK in antiquated routines of social acceptability.

"That which is not earned has no value"

And I support school uniforms 

The only purposes of public school is to be a srudent. Public schools are not a social club. Do kids learn tangentially how to socialize with others? Absolutely. Is this the primary goal? Absolutely not.

"Everyone" has never fit standard social ideals in all of history. That's why we have looney bins and jails. Even if one's problems are not so severe there have always been outliers. This is a fact that is continuous throughout all of history.

Socially, eccentricity is never going to be widely appreciated nor accepted. This has always been the case and always will be. It's a fool's errand to believe that you will change the minds of 8 billion people to match your own ideals.

The routines aren't antiquated. YOU ARE the outlier. You may not agree with current social doctrine but it does remain current social doctrine whether you like it or not. I'm not trying to slight you are the movement here - simply spitting the plain reality to you because it appears this group exists somewhere outside the plane the rest of us are on. You'd do better to accept the social environment and teach these kids how to survive within it than to try to forcibly indoctrinate the entire population with your viewpoints. Hell, this is even a basic tenet of the 12 step program (arguably also outliers) - acceptance of that which we cannot control.

I do have to say that my observation is that this movement exhibits many parallels with Nazism.

[putnam6]

And once again, the lack of responses illustrates my points. No wonder this group keeps losing in the courts, government, and public opinion. If you do not want to answer these questions then you're never going to get what you want because nobody understands where you're coming from with all this.

Every time these questions are asked they are simply dismissed by the transgender lobby as being "irrelevant". Well, hate to break it to you, they ARE relevant.

I'd love to see this lobby go to court and tell the judge they will not respond to the defendant's arguments because they are "irrelevant".

Here I am trying to gain a better understanding of the issues only to be repeatedly dismissed by those that can answer my questions.

Groups who refusebto answer serious questions have no credibility, and it certainly shows you're not here to have any kind of serious discussion. You're here to preach your beliefs to others. We don't have to accept your beliefs.

Haha all I was suggesting is all your hyperbole, anger, and frustration over the overall topic IS NOT germane to this specific thread, it misses the truth 

It's all covered in Wyoming Board of Education law... teachers are not required to address students with thier personal designer pronouns.

Im all about states' rights and again do not want DC messing around in this particular area, no more no less anything else your garner from my posts is completely your imagination.

If you want to discuss the other bullet points how about starting another thread(s) where the links and news stories are directly related to thread.

Instead, you just regurgitated your talking points for all issues on this subject in a thread about the use of designer pronouns.

BTW what did you expect?

Complaining that nobody will answer you on all these topics on a fairly new board, with probably less than 1500 members, and most generally lean towards your viewpoint. 

Post the same on ATS you will get responses, hell,  go to the Straight Dope board and you will get hammered, if you do let me know I'd like to read along.

Lastly, look at the 2-star rating on the thread, it just doesn't move the needle for enough people to respond. 

Im fairly certain Wyoming teachers will not have to use them/they or whatever pronouns people pull out of their azzes in the foreseeable future. 

Any other topics is hijacking the original thread, and makes it incredibly hard to follow along and comment on ALL OF THEM

Stay focused