(06-08-2024, 01:19 AM)AnAlternateOpinion Wrote: As much as some would like teachers to teach the curriculum and stick to the three “Rs” as it were, there is a lot more going on in K-12 schools than just the lessons and only someone with a limited black and white understanding of the world would fail to see that.
There is no more crucial time in our lives learning about socialization, the development of our personalities and for gaining our own sense of agency and identity to carry us into our adult lives. How we learn to interact with others and the world and establish our place within it is an inherent part of our school years so to discount these factors as being irrelevant as a part of the educational process would be shortsighted if not foolhardy.
In my opinion if the kids are gender variant or transgender and are known by others and their family a certain way, that this should be respected when politely asked without being a dick about it or trying to make a point. I know from my dealings with trans youth, decades of researching into the subject and from personal experiences that when a teacher acknowledges a student’s identity without trying to make it a political or ideological battleground, it can go a long way toward facilitating the actual learning process and curriculum.
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I like the little rainbow reputation thing in the profile of mods and admins. Is this for pride month? LOL
I would think they should actually be learning that they're really a boy or a girl and that they need to accept the factual and actual state of the body they live in. They may "feel" that they are some other gender but they are, in fact, NOT.
I think its extremely unhealthy for a kid to be taught that the source of all their problems in life is that they're not really a boy, but a girl, and they need to chop their dick off to "fix it." Trust me, chopping off your genitals fixes NOTHING.
I really have to question the whole agenda on this issue because it seems to me that what we actually have are mostly, young men who don't feel they're able to compete or make it against their male peers, so they get to surgically/medically cheat by giving themselves the appearance of the opposite gender (or more often, their perception of the appearance of the opposite gender because I have NEVER seen a "drag queen" who dresses in any fashion that a reasonable person would consider normal and I think the same can be said for (the very few) FTMs who seem to think being a "man" is getting covered in tattoos and piercings and dressing like a hipster).
To be brutally honest here, my assessment of the situation with these people from my basic observations is that for whatever reason, they feel that they are unable to function in society as the person that they are. They seem to believe that changing their gender and identity will somehow magically make all of their problems go away. "If only I were a woman, everything would be easier." Its just such a drastic over-simplification of reality and the fact remains that even if they do transition, the mental issues that have them feeling this way in the first place are still there - ergo why more than 50% post-transition end up killing themselves when they realize that "becoming a woman" isn't the magic bullet for life success they thought it was.
If you want confirmation of this, go read the manifesto from the tranny in PA who shot up the school. This person was literally OBSESSED with having a penis. Why? I dunno. Believe you me, possession of a penis isn't going to magically fix all your problems. The behavior is bizarre. The rest of us should not be required to pander to the delusions of a mentally ill transgender any more than we would pander to the delusions of Jeffrey Dalmer.
If I went to the doc or my school counselor and said I wanted my arm removed because I felt that my body shouldn't have an arm and I don't want one, I'd be immediately stuffed in a straight jacket and shipped off to the psych ward. But hey, go chop your dick off hey that's totally fine no problem here! And lets be real here, well over 90% of the "trans" movement are men who want to be women and not the other way around.
(06-08-2024, 04:05 AM)AnAlternateOpinion Wrote: I didn’t find your comments particularly or overly abrasive but I appreciate your willingness to try to improve. Along those lines I might suggest using phrases like “a student's whining about their sexualized identity-fantasy” and “wallow in their sexuality obsessed perceptions” falls somewhat short of the mark of being less abrasive and demonstrates a general but common misunderstanding of gender atypical and transgender youth due to lack of actual or practical experience in dealing with these scenarios or individuals beyond what is presented in the media.
Having reviewed the linked article in the OP, this is indeed a case with this teacher. Would it really have been so hard or earth shattering to simply respect these student’s request and get on with the lessons without turning the whole thing into a political battleground?
To address the suggestion that if a student wants to be called a different name, it should be changed legally and reregistered as such with the school I would like to offer the following:
As today’s youth are more flexible and less rigid in matters of gender and sexuality, the possibility exists a young person might just be experimenting or trying on different identities to figure out what fits them and the timing for a legal name change might not be appropriate or even desired as they might not be ready for a full social transition. There are also costs involved that some families simply can’t afford as the rules and procedures for changing names (and gender) vary from state-to-state.
Even in cases where a child has gone through legal recognition of a gender change there are still those who refuse to use proper names and pronouns which can be pretty emotionally and psychologically devastating to the person involved but who cares about the kid when (conservative) ideology and the right to be an ass (free speech) matters more. To me that’s pretty heartless and certainly not conducive to a student excelling in their studies.
From the outside I’m sure these matters seem pretty cut and dried and black or white but these attitudes lack nuance and ignore the differences between individuals within a widely diverse group.
Championing what social behavior? Refusing to use a trans kid’s name and pronouns? That’s just asshattery and if your point was the inverse – that some teachers are promoting this “nonsense”, I would like to point out that they have every major medical association in the country backing their position.
Every major medical association backed the clot shots. Were they right? Have you noticed the hundreds of sportsball players dropping dead on the court/field? Totally normal, right?
Where were all these gender-confused kids when I was in school? Admittedly, I did know one or two, but not the thousands and thousands we have now. Just like all the other social-science movements through the 60s to present (think hippies, etc) the younger gens jump on the bandwagon for social credit points but in reality, most of them don't believe a lick of it, they just want to get laid. Once they get out into the real world they usually grow up and realize that the world is not what Facebook, Instagram, CNN, and MSNBC said it was.
The teacher has no obligation to honor anything but the child's legal name and this has always been the case. I remember back in middle school there was a classmate who's parents named him J. Michael something-or-other-lastname on his birth certificate even though everyone called him Mike, he still had to put his legal name down for standardized tests and whatnot.
I don't see that the teacher raised any political issue at all. The teacher called the student by the name printed on the roll and the student decided to make a political issue out of it by insisting that they be called by a name that is not legally theirs, then involving other teachers and administration to drive home the point. All the student had to do was acknowledge their real, legal name when called for attendance and that part of the class would have been over and they would have been on to the lesson, but instead the kid had to make a big stink about not being called by their legal name. This teacher was a substitute, so how would he/she even know about the student's political leanings?
See, I've noticed a trend where this current style of authoritarian liberalism is chock full of parties who seem to think that they have the right to control what and how other people speak. However, they have no such actual authority, and its not codified in any law in the entire US with the only exception being maybe, California. You cannot control other peoples' actions and words. You can only control how you react to them. But it seems very obvious to me that the parties backing this movement would like nothing more than to become language tyrants with sole authority to dictate how others think and speak - you can't even make this up because they're literally talking about sending half the country to "re-education camps" to force them to toe the transgender line.
(06-08-2024, 03:22 PM)AnAlternateOpinion Wrote: Trans youth is a subject I am passionate and very well informed about and I apologize if I become offensive but my previous online experiences in trying to bring some information and a different perspective to the discourse as well as the spate of ignorant politicized anti-trans legislation sweeping the country pushed by theocratic fascists wannabes (whew! LOL) has me mostly on the defensive. It shouldn’t have to be this way and I understand what a hot button topic trans youth has become and how contentions these discussions can be so I do make an effort to not be an ass but I am not always as successful in that as I would like to be.
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I think you’re overcomplicating the situation and attributing “purpose and decorum” as being part of normal teenage behaviors and skill sets. In a 20 second exchange – teacher calls a kid Paul whose friends and family know them as Paula and a simple common request for decency and respect is met with obstinate politically motivated denial and refusal to accommodate the student’s appeal. The question becomes who is doing the platforming here, the student or the teacher? If someone insists on calling you Matilda or Maxine instead of Max wouldn’t you be inclined to correct them and when that fails to garner the proper response, to appeal to a higher authority? I don’t blame this kid at all and as this substitute teacher has a history of treating kids in ways they might find rude and offensive, repercussions seem appropriate.
With the fear of presenting a partisan response, my gut reaction is to call out that this is happening as you describe as a right-wing wet dream of misinformation but that wouldn’t be very nice of me. This notion that kids are being pushed into transition or a diagnosis of gender dysphoria is not borne out by the facts. Sure, conservative media capitalizes on this in the rare cases this does happen because it fans the flames of controversy and clicks but by far, this is the exception rather than the rule. The vast majority of kids seeking gender affirming care, which may be little more than a place to explore their thoughts and feelings, are unable to obtain it and in 25 U.S. states, such care has now been criminalized which should be a private matter between families and medical professionals.
I disagree that the "anti-trans" legislation is either ignorant or politicized. All the legislation does in the states that have it is require parental permission and/or wait until they've reached the age of majority to pursue clinical treatment. I think this is sound reasoning. We don't let kids drink until they're 21, or drive until the 16, but they should be able to order a dick chop at 5? Not buying it. And I think its absolutely reasonable for the law to expect these children to reach some level of maturity before making life altering decisions like permanently mutilating or removing one's genitalia.
I don't know of any kids who "seek gender affirming care." I know adults who deal with problematic students or offspring who are being offered a "solution" by the medical community that involves essentially turning their child into a eunuch and placing them on a lifetime of antipsychotic meds and hormones. Instead of directly addressing the cause they sidestep it by giving them a "new identity" and medicating them into oblivion. In my opinion, transgenderism is nothing more than they latest big-pharma tactic to sell treatments that subdue people's children much like Ritalin and Prozac were used by lazy parents and teachers to control children back in the 90s.
I'd love to know what it is you consider to be a "right wing wet dream of misinformation"? We've made it 10s of thousands of years on this earth without transgenderism and broad acceptance that there are 2 genetically possible genders but starting in 2010 we are all supposed to believe that there are now 96 genders and anyone can be any gender they want to be and they can even change their gender on a whim anytime they like. I'm sorry, but this thinking simply has no basis in reality.
(06-08-2024, 08:24 PM)AnAlternateOpinion Wrote: Curiously if a flat-chested teenage natal female has breast augmentation or rhinoplasty to affirm her gender or enhance her sexual attractiveness, that’s okay which seems like a double standard to me.
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In spite of best practice medical guidelines supported by every major medical organization in the U.S., many states prohibit the use of puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones for minors with some states even pondering banning all trans medical care for those under 26. (note: puberty blockers can’t inhibit puberty if it has already passed)
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There has roughly been 1000 anti-LGBTx pieces of legislation proposed in the last two years with many of them passing into law and most of them focusing on transgender kids but what you might find interesting is who is behind all this as practically none has come from grassroots constituents clamoring for laws but rather in almost all instances motivation to propose and pass these laws comes from a handful of powerful anti-everything that isn’t straight and cisgender extremist fundamentalist religions political organizations. To name drop a few on some sort of a Christo jihad, how about the Alliance Defending Freedom, the the Family Research Council, the Heritage Foundation and the Liberty Counsel. As a firm believer of separation of church and state, the influence of these organizations on policy and legislation is absolutely abhorrent that scares me to the bone.
Since you've specifically mentioned breast augmentation and rhinoplasty, it appears that your position is that gender-affirming surgeries are cosmetic surgeries and not medically necessary. Do you agree?
I find it interesting that you make lots of statements with very broad generalizations like "best practice medical guidelines supported by every major medical organization in the U.S." while this is FAR from the truth. There is absolutely no consensus in the medical community or otherwise that these treatments actually help children, particularly considering that more than half of post-op trans end up committing suicide. Once might argue that these treatments carry significant risk of killing half their patients.
I've never personally heard of any of the "Christo jihad" organizations you mentioned. I find it hard to believe they would have the money or resources to single-handedly lobby state legislatures for these laws. I don't see these laws having anything at all to do with Christianity. They have to do with protecting the minds and bodies of children who are not yet fully developed, probably don't actually know what they really want yet, and who typically go through periods of confusion and discovery on their way to adulthood that might lead them through periods of poor or misinformed decision making that has the potential for permanent life-altering consequences.
Now that said, are there Christian orgs that are against this? Absolutely. Do they preach loudly about their beliefs? Sure do. Have they been doing that since time immortal? You bet.
Even back in the 80's the fundie groups were going after rock bands claiming satanic lyrics and things like that, secret messages encoded with backward masking, etc which was all always mostly a bunch of balogna. Yet they had pretty much zero traction getting any legislation passed on these issues.
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