Supreme Court Rules Against Trump’s Tariffs

[cherokeetroy]

Howard Lutnick’s firm Cantor Fitzgerald was placing big put options on the 9/11 airlines days before the attack
Now, Cantor Fitzgerald, run by his two sons, has been buying up the rights to tariff refunds for 20-30¢ on the dollar since 1H 2025

Scott Bessent, Soros protégé, gained prominence as a hedge fund manager for his successful high-stake bets on currency and economic collapse
His career is defined by anticipating when government-backed stability is unsustainable --notably shorting the British pound in 1992 and betting against the Japanese yen in 2013

Stephen Miran authored the Mar-a-Lago Accord
A plan that implements aggressive, high-percentage tariffs aimed at deliberate devaluation of the U.S. dollar

Trump welcomed the recent decline in the U.S. dollar, telling reporters in January that the weaker currency is "great" and beneficial for American business and manufacturing


The objective seems pretty clear from my pov

[putnam6]

The Supreme Court didn't rule against all the tariffs, just the blanket tariffs using the IEEPA as legal justification. 

The constitution is clear on who has the power to levy taxes and duties. It was written before income tax was widespread, back when the biggest source of revenue was tariffs. 

Since then, congress has passed provisions that give the president more flexibility to enact foreign policy agendas, especially when needing to be nimble for national security. But the IEEPA doesn't even have the word tariff in it, and the context of the whole law is for emergencies. 

Allowing a president to find loopholes in laws like this to supersede the constitution would set precedence. Someone from the left could come in and declare a national emergency to enact socialist or other policies that go directly against the constitution. 

Trump can still do targeted tariffs, just not blanket tariffs on the whole world. They're also not reciprocal, some of those countries have no tariffs on US goods. Australia has a trade surplus, and many other countries got targeted because they had a VAT (value added tax). VAT isn't a barrier for US goods, because they don't target US goods, they're a tax no different than sales tax. It would be like if a country started a trade war with the US because they didn't like that some states have a sales tax.

Some of these policies should be done. Trade should be negotiated, but it needs to be targeted, thoughtful and with a domestic plan to make sure it's effective. While everyone may hate that congress takes a long time to do things, or just doesn't do them, the idea is that you have state representation to protect your interests. The federal government isn't supposed to dictate everything for the whole country, remember state rights?

This probably wouldn't have been a big point of contention if it was clearly working. Hell, congress would probably codify it if it was. But right now people are upset that the president isn't more powerful than the constitution. That's a feature, not a bug.

a


Yeah, are you just the goldfish in the bowl to Trump's impression of the Cat in the Hat ?

Is there anything Trump has done in this term that you do agree with?

I can't remember one time... I don't rail on Trump myself, it was covered quite completely here, and when I agree with the Left's tirades, I say it's not a good look, or we have to take the good with the bad....why

Because we have to do that with every President... there's never been a President that I loved everything they did. Hell, I don't think Ive seen a President I was 60/40 on by the end of their 2nd term, and I had certainly soured on our one-term Presidents since Kennedy. 

Right now Ive got Trump at 53%, there's nothing done tariff-wise that can't be undone, especially if he has miscalculated and kills the midterms because of your Constitutional crises.

Hell, go win the midterms, take back Congress

BECAUSE the left damn sure isn't going to win the Presidency in 2028, running Gavin, Kamala, or AOC.

Even if Trump is as bad as you suggest (He isn't), both Vance and Rubio will have solid traditional Republican backing, and most of whatever you identify as Trump's base, if they are halfway motivated, the left isn't winning 2028.

The LEFT cannot win on thier own merit, they need another COVID

2h
Sen. John Kennedy on the SCOTUS tariff ruling:

"If you listened to the oral argument in this case, Stevie Wonder could see this decision coming. What's the end result? Here's the end result: for 13 months, President Trump assumed tariff authority...Now, the President didn't just sit around admiring that trade authority, that tariff authority, sucking on his teeth; he used it, and he used it to negotiate trade agreements. India, Japan, South Korea, Europe. Those countries are not going to rescind those trade agreements. Not in your or my natural lifetime. And he would not have been able to do those trade agreements had he not assumed this authority."

[ANNEE]

I thought you waited for a few years to determine that.  That was your excuse for Biden and Obama.

When do I talk about either Biden or Obama?

Desperation on your part?

[chr0naut]

The Republicans and the Democrats both have been putting their worst forward.
Republicans have Trump .... as you said a spiteful spoilt child.
After him comes JD Vance.   Better personality but not nearly qualified to be POTUS.
Democrats have Newsom.   Hair gel'd used car salesman as fake as the day is long.
And they are pushing AOC.   A communist and a total idiot.

The BEST for 2028 would be .... 

Marco Rubio for the Republicans.   Mature.   Experienced.   Excellent choice for any position.
Josh Shapiro for the Democrats.   Mature.  Experienced.   Absolutely the best the Democrats have.

But 'the best' won't get the nominations.   Because the voting public are morons who think that showmanship and snark are what should rule the day instead of having a mature qualified leader.   Those are boring.

People from overseas look on the USA's system that keeps employing deadwood, as meaning that the US system is ultimately, broken, at the end of the day.

The populism that every campaign these days chases, is the biggest problem.

What you guys need is a capable administrator to run the administration.

Not a "new broom" who 'throws the baby out with the bathwater' (what usually happens with these guys).

You need an optimiser, someone who takes what is working well, and tweaks it to make it better, and who has their finger on the pulse to see if the tweak worked or not.

Someone who can change their mind if an idea doesn't have good results.

Someone who under pressure will look for a good win-win situation, rather than a risky win only option.

A statesman, not a didact.

How might you attract those types of hires?

[chr0naut]

If you want access to the American market, you’re going to have to pay.

Nobody is forcing anybody to enter the American market.

Because Americans are 'special' by the magical accident of their birth?

They all want to get into it.
They are all making very good money even with the tariffs in place.

They are making almost the same money that the did when they had to compete against each other, because they still do.

They’ll bitch and moan about it but at the end of the day they’ll gladly pay for access.

The other countries aren't paying the tariffs. The American import companies are.

They are then passing the extra costs on to the American consumers.

Extra money is not coming into the USA because of tariffs. It is money from out of the US economy, paid to US government. It is a sneaky way for the US government to tax the people harder.

The new signed trade deals, which came because of the tariffs(and threats of tariffs) was the goal.

What deals?

Trump sets the tariffs and no-one else gets a say.

Then if someone does the same thing and ups their tariffs in retaliation, Trump looses it and instead of some sort of strategic balance to achieve better outcomes for the USA, he starts trying to use tariffs as a weapon, rather than a regulatory norm.

Do you really think that China gives a damn about how much Americans pay for their stuff? China can still sell the same stuff to the rest of the whole world at its previous prices. Yeah, they'll loose some consumers, then they'll just re-price everything and still get about the same profits from everywhere else.

And Trump's new 15% tariffs, now the high court has ruled his first lot of tariffs were illegal, do you think ANYONE made a deal on them?

Any leveling of the playing field was good for the USA.
The status quo was not.

The biggest strongest economy in the world?

Don’t be surprised when Trump’s admin changes the statutes they used to justify the first tariffs to do them again.
SCOTUS, Kavanaugh specifically, showed them the way in his 63 page dissent.

Page 108 here…

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25...7_4gcj.pdf

Trump's first round of tariffs were illegal. So he'll just double down on them. And they'll still be illegal, the Constitution is quite clear on that. It is the sole duty of Congress to levy tariffs and taxes. Under Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 (the Taxing and Spending Clause), Congress holds the authority to levy taxes to pay debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare

[Sky727]

The tariffs will continue only under a different regulations.

[CriticalStinker]

a


Yeah, are you just the goldfish in the bowl to Trump's impression of the Cat in the Hat ?

Is there anything Trump has done in this term that you do agree with?

I can't remember one time... I don't rail on Trump myself, it was covered quite completely here, and when I agree with the Left's tirades, I say it's not a good look, or we have to take the good with the bad....why

Because we have to do that with every President... there's never been a President that I loved everything they did. Hell, I don't think Ive seen a President I was 60/40 on by the end of their 2nd term, and I had certainly soured on our one-term Presidents since Kennedy. 

Right now Ive got Trump at 53%, there's nothing done tariff-wise that can't be undone, especially if he has miscalculated and kills the midterms because of your Constitutional crises.

Hell, go win the midterms, take back Congress

BECAUSE the left damn sure isn't going to win the Presidency in 2028, running Gavin, Kamala, or AOC.

Even if Trump is as bad as you suggest (He isn't), both Vance and Rubio will have solid traditional Republican backing, and most of whatever you identify as Trump's base, if they are halfway motivated, the left isn't winning 2028.

The LEFT cannot win on thier own merit, they need another COVID

This doesn't have anything to do with the left. Nor do I think them winning anything would be some sort of salvation.

That's precisely why I highlighted the dangers of precedent here, because I'd be worried about handing them the same power of executive privilege that supersedes the constitution. 

You might be able to find an isolated instance where the tariffs showed a benefit... But so far trade deficit is up, the US dollar is down 10%, debt is increasing at a COVID pace, so I guess I don't understand why people are hitching their cart to the wagon that he should have more power than the constitution on this.

Tariffs are an effective tool, one I've even said I'd support using. But the tool is useless if everyone knows that they're temporary. Why would people make decisions that are long term like reshoring production if they know most of the tariffs ware going to disappear in a few months or years?

Why should I want the president to have new executive powers if it's not working? That would be betting it's so worth it now, we're willing to risk the future shitty candidates won't abuse it. But again, their is no metric that would justify making that case.

[Vermilion]

Because Americans are 'special' by the magical accident of their birth?




They are making almost the same money that the did when they had to compete against each other, because they still do.


The other countries aren't paying the tariffs. The American import companies are.

They are then passing the extra costs on to the American consumers.

Extra money is not coming into the USA because of tariffs. It is money from out of the US economy, paid to US government. It is a sneaky way for the US government to tax the people harder.


What deals?

Trump sets the tariffs and no-one else gets a say.

Then if someone does the same thing and ups their tariffs in retaliation, Trump looses it and instead of some sort of strategic balance to achieve better outcomes for the USA, he starts trying to use tariffs as a weapon, rather than a regulatory norm.

Do you really think that China gives a damn about how much Americans pay for their stuff? China can still sell the same stuff to the rest of the whole world at its previous prices. Yeah, they'll loose some consumers, then they'll just re-price everything and still get about the same profits from everywhere else.

And Trump's new 15% tariffs, now the high court has ruled his first lot of tariffs were illegal, do you think ANYONE made a deal on them?


The biggest strongest economy in the world?


Trump's first round of tariffs were illegal. So he'll just double down on them. And they'll still be illegal, the Constitution is quite clear on that. It is the sole duty of Congress to levy tariffs and taxes. Under Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 (the Taxing and Spending Clause), Congress holds the authority to levy taxes to pay debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare

The tariffs generated $264 billion in 2025 and $118 billion so far this year.
The tariffs haven’t doomed the American consumer like the anti-Americans wished.
Inflation down, GDP up.

UK, Japan, EU, South Korea, Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Cambodia, Thailand, Argentina, Bangladesh, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, North Macedonia and adjustments to Canada and Mexico.
Those deals.

And USA just won the men’s hockey gold in overtime.
Winning.

[putnam6]

This doesn't have anything to do with the left. Nor do I think them winning anything would be some sort of salvation.

That's precisely why I highlighted the dangers of precedent here, because I'd be worried about handing them the same power of executive privilege that supersedes the constitution. 

You might be able to find an isolated instance where the tariffs showed a benefit... But so far trade deficit is up, the US dollar is down 10%, debt is increasing at a COVID pace, so I guess I don't understand why people are hitching their cart to the wagon that he should have more power than the constitution on this.

Tariffs are an effective tool, one I've even said I'd support using. But the tool is useless if everyone knows that they're temporary. Why would people make decisions that are long term like reshoring production if they know most of the tariffs ware going to disappear in a few months or years?

Why should I want the president to have new executive powers if it's not working? That would be betting it's so worth it now, we're willing to risk the future shitty candidates won't abuse it. But again, their is no metric that would justify making that case.

What if's this happens? what if that happens?

Being concerned about a future President? hell Im watching this one in the here and now

Im concerned about what has ALREADY happened and how it gets fixed...

Im sure some goldfish see it the same way...somewhere in a country of 330 million people

AGAIN, name something that Trump has done that can not be undone

Really, it's just his pardons and various judicial appointments, FWIW he has had fewer this 2nd term and military actions. Just like any other President.


Thats it, everything else can be reversed, including his hand-wringing world economy-destroying tariffs.

Nobody likes the chaos and uncertainty, especially the economic pundits, but that doesn't make their dire predictions realistic either.

Remember, we were supposed to have economic ruin in April.

IT DID NOT happen then isn't going to happen now.

But my generation has grown up with a plethora of MSM concerns and consequences that never occurred.

Between nuclear annihilation, AIDS, and global warming, civilization as we knew it was supposed to be dead or dying already...

[CriticalStinker]

What if's this happens? what if that happens?

Being concerned about a future President? hell Im watching this one in the here and now

Im concerned about what has ALREADY happened and how it gets fixed...

Im sure some goldfish see it the same way...somewhere in a country of 330 million people

AGAIN, name something that Trump has done that can not be undone

Really, it's just his pardons and various judicial appointments, FWIW he has had fewer this 2nd term and military actions. Just like any other President.


Thats it, everything else can be reversed, including his hand-wringing world economy-destroying tariffs.

Nobody likes the chaos and uncertainty, especially the economic pundits, but that doesn't make their dire predictions realistic either.

Remember, we were supposed to have economic ruin in April.

IT DID NOT happen then isn't going to happen now.

But my generation has grown up with a plethora of MSM concerns and consequences that never occurred.

Between nuclear annihilation, AIDS, and global warming, civilization as we knew it was supposed to be dead or dying already...

The what if's with executive power abuse already has happened, under many administrations before Trump. It's a large reason why he won, a strong appetite of the people to push back on the establishment and elites. 

Another what if that happened was the blanket tariffs being rules unconstitutional. Most people knew that was going to happen, which is why the tariffs didn't have the intended effect. Why would businesses spend massive amounts of money to mitigate something that is very temporary?

They could have been targeted and codified. That would have been legal and actually deliver certainty and results. That's what all of this is about. 

If your argument is that Trump didn't destroy the planet, I do agree with you there. We are still very much alive and well. However, I'm merely questioning why we're doing something if we know it's unconstitutional and will just be reversed. I suppose I don't see the benefit in that.