Nuke Reactor on the MOON

[Sirius]

I'd worry more about the things orbiting us than what's on the moon

[UltraBudgie]

I'd worry more about the things orbiting us than what's on the moon

one of my favourite flat-earth questions is "yeah well how do satellites stay up there then??"

the most coherent answer seems to be: "they're balloons"

nasa is the largest consumer of helium in the united states after all

it can't be all just to make their voices squeaky

also, in before someone else say "hey the moon does orbit us duh!" lol

[Sirius]

one of my favourite flat-earth questions is "yeah well how do satellites stay up there then??"

the most coherent answer seems to be: "they're balloons"

nasa is the largest consumer of helium in the united states after all

it can't be all just to make their voices squeaky

also, in before someone else say "hey the moon does orbit us duh!" lol

They should put whatever engines is on the balloons on jets to make them go faster

[WallFlowerActive]

I hope if we place a base on the moon it’s on the visible side with the infrastructure big enough to be seen with a telescope in the pattern that spells out FE Sucks!

Added.  The only problem is getting flat earthers to look through a telescope?

[EXETER]

Don’t nuclear reactors need lots of water for cooling?

They need a lot of cooling.  They can get that in different ways.  Because there is no atmosphere on the moon, all waste heat will have to be rejected directly to space by IR radiation.  That requires large radiator panels with closed loop coolant circulating inside them. The coolant will probably be similar to what's used in automotive AC systems.  This requires a lot of radiator panels which might end up weighing more than the reactor.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

The moons gonna be like Antarctica only for the real intention of going there..  to build a power plant for "REE" mines.  Are they still rare Earth elements when on the moon? RMEs?

The purpose of a power plant in the sunbathed south polar region will also be in a basin.

This Basin! 

b]South Pole-Aitken Basin:[/b]
This large impact basin is a prime target for studying the Moon's mantle due to the depth of the impact that created it. 

Studying the moons mantle is a euphemism for taking advantage of a basin with REE concenteations far exceeding other places on the moon. 

The race is to be the first to set up reactors to power the mining operations for Yttrium, Cerium, Lanthanum, and Neodymium. And also gold, silver, and mercury. 

Theres also tons of frozen water there to make radioactive too.  

They would have to transport the water from the parts permanently in shadow to the parts permanently in light. 

But water has to be REALLY near absolute zero cold to stay ice on the moon. I dont know exactly, but atmospheric pressure makes its boiling point hundreds of degrees below zero, and there's no liquid phase. It sublimates solid to gas.

I love that the administration up its ass about fiscal conservatism is undertaking the logistic nightmare of a lunar nuclear reactor, that requires liquid water to not meltdown. They cant make fun of California's high speed rail boondoggle anymore if they do this. 

The New Cold Space Race - Instead of the first human on the moon by the end of the decade, it's the first nuclear reactor on the moon by the end of the decade, and two fewer years then Kennedy gave. 

If there are aliens we must do their head in with our space exploration goals. 

How much are we spending on the artificial atmospheric pressure to pull this off?  Pressurized airtight complexes of constantly cycling liquid water cant be cheap, even small versions.  

We need it to convert all that ice to water to make radioactive. And keep it liquid. Not saying it cant be done, but with a basin in perpetual sunshine and solar panels available, should it be done?

And then I think of the liquid water the hypothetical mines would need to control mining the regolith and its even more fine particles of dust. The entire mining opp couldnt be exposed to the lunar atmosphere either.  But that's getting ahead of things. 

This isn't really well thought out. Or cheap.  If the ISS was 150 billion to build, its over a trillion to pull off the nuclear moon unit. 

I guess they could use nuclear sub style reactor, which could power a small city, but it still uses tens of thousands of gallons of water per minute per reactor core.

Thinking about this way more than I should...

The smallest nuclear reactor is around 12 Megawatts, which is way more fiscally feasible, but you'd just need 90 acres of solar panels to cover that amount of power generation.  And i have to imagine thats a WAY cheaper 12 megawatts.  

Even the smallest reactors have a hefty water requirement.

For a 12 MW reactor, this would translate to a water consumption rate of roughly 12 * 2725 = 32,700 liters per hour, or approximately 545 liters per minute.[/b]

So thats 210,000 gallons a day. Or a 223 acre lake every year.

If only they didn't make renewable energy the evil scam seeking to destroy the noble oil and gas industry...

[BeyondKnowledge]

According to several sources, water ice melts at 32 F or 0 C on the Moon just like on Earth. It just sublimes directly to gas much like CO2 does on Earth. This will help keep the solid ice cold as sublimation requires more heat to change state than just melting it or boiling it. 

It would be possible just to mechanically mine the water ice and process it in pressurized containers to obtain the water. 
Also the cold in the permanently shaded crater areas could be used for cooling radiators making the area of the actual radiators much smaller than in the sunlight.

In other areas that have sunlight, the water could freeze when in the dark and then cool the reactors during the day. This is much like the Lunar Rover battery cooling system. The batteries were packed in wax that melted in use then solidified again when allowed to cool while not in use.

It just requires a cooling system adapted to the part of the Moon the reactor is installed at.

And yes, it is about the minerals. 

The biggest problem is the fine dust that will wear away anything that moves. Think dry electrostatic charged grinding compound and you will have something  close.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

I think there's a misnomer there somewhere. Or i dont fully understand it. Or confused sublimation and boiling? 

That doesnt seem right though. 

If you ask google...

"Will water ice sublimate on the moon at minus 50 celcius?" 

It answers: 

Yes, water ice would sublimate (turn directly from solid to gas) at -50°C on the Moon

I am getting from my searches the sublimation temperature (due to pressure) is -53° C (220 K).

And further inquiry makes it more confusing...

Water ice on the Moon will not sublimate (evaporate directly into a gas) at temperatures below approximately 100 Kelvin (or -173°C or -280°F). At these low temperatures, the sublimation rate is extremely slow, allowing ice deposits to remain stable for long periods, even in the vacuum of space.

I do know you will need a lots of pressure vessels to have the liquid water necessary, regardless of outside sublimation points.

[BeyondKnowledge]

I think there's a misnomer there and pressure matters more. Or i dont fully understand it. 

That doesnt seem right.

If you ask google...

"Will water ice sublimate on the moon at minus 50 celcius?" 

It answers: 

I am getting from my searches the sublimation temperature (due to pressure) is -53° C (220 K).

And further inquiry makes it more confusing...

I do know you will need a lots of pressure vessels to have the liquid water necessary, regardless of outside sublimation points.

I think I have found the difference. You are stating sublimation of any water at all and I am finding sublimation of the water as a mass. The sublimation of the water will increase pressure locally along with the cooling action of the change of state, this will slow the process significantly. As it turns to a gas, it self regulates the process of turning into a gas. Still at 0.006 atmosphere (almost pure vaccume) the temperature is just above 0 C according to the chart in the below link. That is actually the triple state point where water exists as solid, liquid, and gas at the same time.

https://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cosmos/*/S...%20summer.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

I think I have found the difference. You are stating sublimation of any water at all and I am finding sublimation of the water as a mass. The sublimation of the water will increase pressure locally along with the cooling action of the change of state, this will slow the process significantly. As it turns to a gas, it self regulates the process of turning into a gas. Still at 0.006 atmosphere (almost pure vaccume) the temperature is just above 0 C according to the chart in the below link. That is actually the triple state point where water exists as solid, liquid, and gas at the same time.

https://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cosmos/*/S...%20summer.

Okay, I am not disputing the triple point, but now I'm more confused when looking up prssures at the surface. Isn't 0.0006 still considered a "high vacuum?" Way above the moon's surface pressure of 2.96 × 10^-15 atm (0.00000000000000296).  Wouldn't that make the entire moon untenable for water ice to exist above very very low temperatures?

* changed millibars to atmospheres. 

I realize its not instant and the volume would sublimate  more slowly depending on temperature, but wouldnt taking polar lunar ice to out of its cold stable place and into sunlight be like dry ice on earth?  Or throwing a comet at the sun? 

What am I missing? What is Google misleading me on?

Is is possible to have a pressurized water pipeline open to lunar elements? 

Suppose they build a plant to melt the water ice under pressure, wouldn't it theoretically need a pressurized pipe to surround the transport pipe to maintain liquid flow to the distant sun-parched reactor, that needs 17,500 gallons of water daily for every megawatt?  

This nuclear plant sounds like an expensive nightmare of pressure regulation and airtight chambers. It would have to exist inside a pressure bubble and vent outside it simultaneously, and also have a complex network of double-pressurized pipes. 

223 acres of lunar water per year over 90 acres of solar panels you can use for decades (@ 12 megawatts)... Brilliant!