'No big deal" Just an atmospheric phenomenon' some outages green energy absolved

[sahgwa]

When I think about the anonymous engineer(s) discussion it reminds me and my analogy loving brain nothing so much as a feedback wave from a guitar left plugged into an amplifier with no one around to stop the strings from ringing.

All the juice and wires kept oscillating and pulsing and getting stronger and stronger without anything to clamp them down. 

It must be super expensive to hardwire everything to be space weather resistant. But maybe necessary for SURVIVAL OF THE HUMAN RACE! If you value computing technology to do your thinking and analysing. 

The LAST thing the very proggy governments in Lisbon and Madrid will admit to is ANY failure of 'green new deal' 'carbon neutral' climate BS gear.  Blame must be shifted.

[ArMaP]

In your opinion, is this sensationalistic journalism...

Yes, because:
1 - They say the blackout included Belgium, but it did not;
2 - There is no sign that "the early findings suggest that a sudden loss in solar power in southwestern Spain is what triggered everything", and unless there is an instant eclipse, solar power does not disappear almost instantly;
3 - There's no confirmation that Europe was seconds away from a continent-wide blackout. On 8 June 2023 there was a disruption in the cable that connects the UK to Norway, and there was a change in frequency of nearly 0.5 Hz, so the frequency in the UK went from 50.1 Hz to 49.63 Hz and in Norway from 50.07 Hz to 50.46 Hz;
4 - He speaks of nuclear power plants as if they should have and ignores that Spain does have 5 nuclear power plants.

[ArMaP]

It must be super expensive to hardwire everything to be space weather resistant. But maybe necessary for SURVIVAL OF THE HUMAN RACE! If you value computing technology to do your thinking and analysing. 

I don't know if that is possible.

The LAST thing the very proggy governments in Lisbon and Madrid will admit to is ANY failure of 'green new deal' 'carbon neutral' climate BS gear.  Blame must be shifted.

What do you mean by "proggy"?

[putnam6]

When I think about the anonymous engineer(s) discussion it reminds me and my analogy loving brain nothing so much as a feedback wave from a guitar left plugged into an amplifier with no one around to stop the strings from ringing.

All the juice and wires kept oscillating and pulsing and getting stronger and stronger without anything to clamp them down. 

It must be super expensive to hardwire everything to be space weather resistant. But maybe necessary for SURVIVAL OF THE HUMAN RACE! If you value computing technology to do your thinking and analysing. 

The LAST thing the very proggy governments in Lisbon and Madrid will admit to is ANY failure of 'green new deal' 'carbon neutral' climate BS gear.  Blame must be shifted.

The only way to harden power against flares and Mother Nature is to go underground as much as possible, and yeah, nuclear energy is a key component.

[sahgwa]

I don't know if that is possible.


What do you mean by "proggy"?

I meant proggy as in Progressive.  The bloomin Socialists have a majority along with Social Democrats and we all know how socialists operate.  Upraised fist logos and all.

[putnam6]

Yes, because:
1 - They say the blackout included Belgium, but it did not;
2 - There is no sign that "the early findings suggest that a sudden loss in solar power in southwestern Spain is what triggered everything", and unless there is an instant eclipse, solar power does not disappear almost instantly;
3 - There's no confirmation that Europe was seconds away from a continent-wide blackout. On 8 June 2023 there was a disruption in the cable that connects the UK to Norway, and there was a change in frequency of nearly 0.5 Hz, so the frequency in the UK went from 50.1 Hz to 49.63 Hz and in Norway from 50.07 Hz to 50.46 Hz;
4 - He speaks of nuclear power plants as if they should have and ignores that Spain does have 5 nuclear power plants.

For context, this article was written within 24 hours... when there was a lot of misinformation floating around

Eurelectric data shows electricity generation dipped unusually low in Spain, opens new tab and Portugal,  on April 28, indicating a power cut. The plunge around 12:30 p.m. CEST (1030 GMT), is consistent with timings reported in media articles, opens new tab.
The power cut in France, which only affected one region, did not show as having an impact on the country’s electricity generation for April 28, opens new tab. There was no data for Andorra.
Electricity generation dipped, opens new tab in the Netherlands on April 28, but a Netherlands government spokesperson said this was not unusual and likely due to an increased use of solar power. In Greece, opens new tab and Belgium, opens new tab, electricity generation remained constant on April 28, Eurelectric data showed, evidence that neither suffered a major outage.
VERDICTMisleading. There are no credible reports or data indicating there were major power failures in The Netherlands, Greece or Belgium on April 28. 

I wouldn't expect anyone to say they were about to go dark publicly, heads would roll

I thought 3 of the nuclear plants were offline and the other 2 shut down as per thier design?

[DontTreadOnMe]

No, it would if the power drop could only happen with that source of power.

If I'm not mistaken, it was a drop of 15 GW at a time that represented almost 90% of all the solar (photovoltaic) production, so I doubt 90% of all solar panels or inverters in Spain somehow suddenly failed.


Obviously.
If you are producing 100 GW for a demand of 100 GW and suddenly the production falls to 50 GW, the system is always going to shut down, otherwise it would turn into a giant version of connecting a 2 A charger to a laptop that demands 5 A.

I read that something happened to start the cascade.....similar to what happened about 10 years ago in the Midwest USA/southern Ontario Canada.
This is supposedly that "really" happened.  YMMV and I don't know if there really are any conditions common to both.  But globally, you'd hope others learned from this:
https://practical.engineering/blog/2022/...3-blackout

But, on August 14th, MISO’s state estimator was having some problems. More specifically, it couldn’t converge on a solution. The state estimator was saying, “Sorry. All the data that you’re feeding me just isn't making sense. I can’t find a state that matches all the inputs.” And the reason it was saying this is that twice that day, a transmission line outside MISO’s area had tripped offline, and the state estimator didn’t have an automatic link to that information. Instead it had to be entered manually, and it took a bunch of phone calls and troubleshooting to realize this in both cases. So, starting around noon, MISO’s state estimator was effectively offline.

[ArMaP]

I meant proggy as in Progressive.  The bloomin Socialists have a majority along with Social Democrats and we all know how socialists operate.  Upraised fist logos and all.

You are terribly wrong.

[ArMaP]

For context, this article was written within 24 hours... when there was a lot of misinformation floating around

There was a lot of misinformation in the first 2 hours, after that information started being more consistent.
After 12 hours most people in Spain and all people in Portugal had power again and although there was an explanation they already knew (and so did the public) that everything pointed to the problem having started in the southwest of Spain.

I wouldn't expect anyone to say they were about to go dark publicly, heads would roll

I don't understand why you say that. Why would anyone say they were about to go dark?

I thought 3 of the nuclear plants were offline and the other 2 shut down as per thier design?

Exactly, which means that nuclear power in itself is not a sure safeguard, planning and testing is better.

[sahgwa]

You are terribly wrong.

I am wrong in saying that Socialists control the majority of the Portuguese Parliament and that one of the parties logos is the usual Socialist upraised fist? 



Or are you claiming that neither party are Progressive? 

I am only bringing political crap into this as the government has direct blame on policies such as energy and the power grid.