NATO approves use of deep strike weapons against Russia

[putnam6]

Would these rely on US targeting systems or Germany's?

Sounds as if Trump is going to off the spigot 

NOELREPORTS 

@NOELreports

The first batch of long-range weapons funded by Germany and produced in Ukraine could be ready within weeks, according to the German Defense Ministry. The systems are domestically made, already in service with the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and require no additional training. Mass production is expected to begin in 2025.

[RickyD]

Would these rely on US targeting systems or Germany's?

Sounds as if Trump is going to off the spigot 

NOELREPORTS 

@NOELreports

The first batch of long-range weapons funded by Germany and produced in Ukraine could be ready within weeks, according to the German Defense Ministry. The systems are domestically made, already in service with the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and require no additional training. Mass production is expected to begin in 2025.

From everything I have read it seems all of NATO uses classified US cartographic mapping for guidance. It would have to be included for any real precision. Ukraine can get targeting coords with their intel methods but lack any real long range ISR so without NATO feeding target packages they just can't hit much deep into Russia...especially dynamic targets or hitting static targets at just the right time. Think an airfield with something valuable parked outside and vulnerable. So yes they can use them without NATO help but not in the manner we are discussing nor in a manner that would do much. They need that realtime data of this important thing is here and vulnerable which they just can't really do on their own.

[sahgwa]

From everything I have read it seems all of NATO uses classified US cartographic mapping for guidance. It would have to be included for any real precision. Ukraine can get targeting coords with their intel methods but lack any real long range ISR so without NATO feeding target packages they just can't hit much deep into Russia...especially dynamic targets or hitting static targets at just the right time. Think an airfield with something valuable parked outside and vulnerable. So yes they can use them without NATO help but not in the manner we are discussing nor in a manner that would do much. They need that realtime data of this important thing is here and vulnerable which they just can't really do on their own.

Makes sense.
Question is does the Trump admin. really want this to end so have the balls to order we stop sharing intel (again?) ? 
Or would that not really help things ?
Since we can't deter Russia and push a ceasefire.

[putnam6]

From everything I have read it seems all of NATO uses classified US cartographic mapping for guidance. It would have to be included for any real precision. Ukraine can get targeting coords with their intel methods but lack any real long range ISR so without NATO feeding target packages they just can't hit much deep into Russia...especially dynamic targets or hitting static targets at just the right time. Think an airfield with something valuable parked outside and vulnerable. So yes they can use them without NATO help but not in the manner we are discussing nor in a manner that would do much. They need that realtime data of this important thing is here and vulnerable which they just can't really do on their own.

So while they can fire at the target, it's less effective and accurate.

Still, Russia will be pissy about it, no doubt, his demands are nutz 

 Putin's Peace Demands Include End to NATO Enlargement

 Key Points

- Russia's conditions for a peace settlement in Ukraine reportedly include a written Western commitment to halt NATO's eastward enlargement, guarantees of Ukrainian neutrality, significant sanctions relief, and the unfreezing of Russian sovereign assets.
-Kremlin-linked sources also indicate President Putin now insists on full Russian control over four Ukrainian regions—Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson—in addition to Crimea.

I follow this guy because he is inflammatory as hell, anti-US, but posts interesting "disinformation"

-- Mod. note -- Snipped html coding -- 

The heads of the German and Ukrainian defense ministries have signed an agreement on Berlin financing the production of long-range weapons for Kiev, the German department reported.

Kiev will receive 5 billion euros in military aid from Germany.

Behind-the-scenes rumors have already started to spread through Ukrainian Telegram channels.

Here is the comment from "Legitimny": The meeting in Berlin took place in a "tense" atmosphere. Zelensky asked Merz for new supplies of air defense, missiles and equipment. He also asked for cash loans from the EU, but was required to tighten mobilization. According to rumors, he promised it this year, but only after Europe definitely agrees to support Ukraine for at least a year. Zelensky received an advance payment, which means he will begin to do what Merz demanded of him. This is tightening mobilization. The local channel "Woman with a Scythe" also paints an equally "rosy" future for Ukraine: There are rumors in the corridors that Trump will emerge from the Ukrainian crisis by the end of the summer saying, "These guys don't want to negotiate, let them fight. This is Europe's problem!" There will be an escalation in the fall. In the fall there will be a tightening of (male) mobilization from 20 years of age and an expansion of female. As Trump once said, "everything Zelensky says is harmful to Ukraine." It looks like it.

[Inspector44]

This is all fun and junk and stuff, but I cant wait until Ukraine is asked to pay back all the money donated to them and they cant after this little squabble. The little prancing weirdo running Ukraine is going to be found handing in a closet with his willy in his hand. Russia will then just prop up a new friendly puppet in the Kiev presidency and they'll have Ukraine anyways.

Also, there's something wrong with your post, Putnam. Looks like a copy paste went nuts.

[sahgwa]

No one is actively trying for peace, that's for sure.
NATO wants war.
EU wants war.
Putin wants war. 
That's what it seems like.€€€€€Have fun, idiots. 
No one is attempting de-escalation whatsoever.  Real big men.

[putnam6]

This is all fun and junk and stuff, but I cant wait until Ukraine is asked to pay back all the money donated to them and they cant after this little squabble. The little prancing weirdo running Ukraine is going to be found handing in a closet with his willy in his hand. Russia will then just prop up a new friendly puppet in the Kiev presidency and they'll have Ukraine anyways.

Also, there's something wrong with your post, Putnam. Looks like a copy paste went nuts.

Apologies, I forgot to edit the X post copy and paste thanks to mod for help

That was the start of Trump being perturbed when he learned most of the EU stuff was considered a "loan," while American support was a donation, IIRC

Exact Repayment Amount: Precise figures for repayable aid are not fully specified in available data, but loans (e.g., $7.8 billion and parts of FMF) constitute a small portion of the total $182.8 billion. Most military aid (over $65.9 billion) and budget support are grants, not requiring repayment. The $20 billion G7 loan is indirectly covered by Russian assets. Thus, repayable amounts likely range from $7.8 billion to $10 billion, with potential reductions via forgiveness or future agreements.

[Ravenwatcher]

When will everyone one call Putin's bluff he's now threatening Germany with strikes has put 50,000 more troops on the Ukrainian border all during talking of peace talks - Anyone seen that movie "Mars Attacks"  Dude is bluffing and stringing along everyone He cant even take Ukraine and damn sure he knows his dear Russia would be turned to glass if he ever launched a nuke what would be the point.

 "Putin masses 50,000 troops on Ukraine's north front as Trump again agrees to meet Russian, Ukrainian leadersRussia pushes second meeting in Istanbul, while Ukraine tells Moscow to pony up ceasefire terms first"

[Inspector44]

When will everyone one call Putin's bluff he's now threatening Germany with strikes has put 50,000 more troops on the Ukrainian border all during talking of peace talks - Anyone seen that movie "Mars Attacks"  Dude is bluffing and stringing along everyone He cant even take Ukraine and damn sure he knows his dear Russia would be turned to glass if he ever launched a nuke what would be the point.

 "Putin masses 50,000 troops on Ukraine's north front as Trump again agrees to meet Russian, Ukrainian leadersRussia pushes second meeting in Istanbul, while Ukraine tells Moscow to pony up ceasefire terms first"

I know some non-Nazi Germans who relish the chance for a rematch between Russia and Germany based on how the Russians treated them during The Berlin Wall era. I'm pretty sure Germany wouldn't require US help to waffle stomp Russia should they strike.

[putnam6]

Why doesn't Russia just cut off Gas exports to the EU? Instead of threatening Russia, hell, why is the EU still buying from Russia 3 years into the SMO