Lefties proven (again) to tend smarter than right-wingers

[chr0naut]

Where does it say they were successfully intercepted?

You posted a number and said that it was "not including gotaways".

The 'gotaways' entered the country and stayed. All the rest must have been intercepted.

To support your case about those who successfully 'entered the country illegally', you need to quote the numbers of those people - Not the total number of people who were intercepted (who either got turned around back into Mexico, or were enrolled into the official legal process of entry into the country, or were imprisoned).

The 'gotaways' are the ones who succeeded in 'entering the country illegally and staying'. The number of them is vitally important to your argument about illegal entry, yet you have not yet given those numbers (and no-one seems to have any trustable accurate estimates. They just seem to make up varying and self-contradictory ones at different times).

Bother to research your own point.

I cannot seem to get any reliable definite numbers of how many succeeded in 'entering the country illegally'. If the numbers given by some pundits were correct, we could see the crowds in satellite images, and we don't.

Similarly the numbers which have some reliability and credibility are the number of interceptions by border patrols. Those numbers, in most cases, are of people who 'did not succeed in entering the country illegally and staying'.

I think the reason that there are no specific details is because there has been a 'shocking sounding' false narrative which appealed to the racist attitudes of Conservatives. Specific accurate and credible data would crush that false narrative, and so those details have been supressed.

The very idea that only a particular politician can solve the problem is also bunk. Any administrator who evaluates the true situation could also enact policies and legislation to rectify the situation. It's not really that hard a thing to do. But because the situation is mostly BS, no-one reasonable wants to do provably ineffective, stupid, and expensive stuff, to fix a non-issue.

What the statistics do show is that immigrants (illegal entrants or otherwise) are more law-abiding than endemic populations.

If you want to stop rapes and drug dealing, attend to the largest groups of likely offenders (about 60% of drug and sex crimes in the US are perpetrated by Caucasian males between 19 and 35 years old), and don't spend inordinate resources vilifying those whose usual only crime is a misdemeanour (entering the country undocumented).

And immigrants add to the economy. They add power and stability to the country as they work, live, buy and sell within the country. Trump, if he is such a great businessman doesn't seem to see the opportunity he is missing in not monetizing immigration and instead is throwing more money into an almost insatiable hole (that doesn't cycle back into the economy).

It could only look that way to you if you hadn't bothered to research your point. It's been an issue during most of our lives. What actually may have happened is wealthy sponsors shifted the left into supporting illegal immigration. No one just woke up one day in 2015 and let some dictator convince them.

And I suppose no-one in Germany in 1933, or in Italy in 1921, just woke up and let some dictator convince them? Of course that is the way it happens - every time!

59% of California's voters supported Proposition 187 in 1994.  

Sure, but it was ruled un-Constitutional, as it overrode Federal law. And it would have led to that often cited "papers please" authoritarian constant re-checking of proof of citizenship for every official interaction.

What's wrong with controlled and limited immigration?

Nothing wrong with that. The USA already has had that since the 1930's.

The thing is that it is a different issue and does nothing about undocumented entry to the country, or visa overstayers.

Trump is implying however, that crime and drugs etc. are all from the undocumented. Yes, they are part of the problem, but they are a very small part in the scheme of things.

Trump is using it to get power, and it is a lie. Hitler and Mussolini did the same thing (vilify, dehumanize and then persecute the 'other' for things that they could not possibly have caused). The historical details, crime statistics and economic statistics show that.

If a country has any sort of crime problem, you can be fairly sure that someone from another country isn't doing it to them more than they are doing it to themselves.

So what? Their ancestors didn't do the same? How many different new countries do they get to fill up and ruin?

Native Americans are native Americans. They were there in North and South America before any Europeans or Africans, and well before the existence of the USA.

If anything, it has been colonial Europeans that have filled up and ruined a heavily populated, cultural, civilized and diverse 'pre-Columbus' America.

LOL.

[chr0naut]

Doesn't matter what kind of fence you have if someone leaves the gates open and Democrats fought Trump tooth and nail against his border policies.

But Trump didn't 'leave the gate open', yet there were 2.4 million border patrol 'encounters' (again with uncounted 'getaways') of people who crossed the Southern border during his term in office (before Biden even became President).

Yet Biden 'whom Trump (and you) both claimed was 'lax and allowed them in', encountered (and therefore stopped) more. 7.2 million to Trump's 2.4 million. Who do you think was 'allowing them in', based upon Border Patrol statistics?

So, all that money and people resources that Trump allocated to the job, were a waste and clearly didn't work. In fact, all the media attention popularized the notion that people could sneak into the US.

You know as well as I do there was a massive influx of illegals during Biden's term and it was done on purpose.

Yes, Trump repeated the idea for years in the world media, and more people, seeing that it had been done before, tried.

[andy06shake]

  Those were Kennedy Democrats.  Way back when.   That's when I used to be a Democrat.    But Democrats went bat crap crazy.   They aren't that anymore.    If Kennedy were alive today the Democrats would reject him and he'd be a Republican.    Now Democrats bring us men who pretend to be women and 'no borders' as well as no rule of law.

Hands you a bat-crap crazy mirror, Flyers.

And points you towards the likes of Caitlyn Jenner, Blaire White or even Buck Angel on the flip side...

[Solvedit]

To support your case about those who successfully 'entered the country illegally', you need to quote the numbers of those people - Not the total number of people who were intercepted (who either got turned around back into Mexico, or were enrolled into the official legal process of entry into the country, or were imprisoned).

Snopes seemed to think the number was around 7.2 million. The number of encounters with CBP went way down after January 2025, indicating the current administration's policies are actively discouraging people from trying.

The very idea that only a particular politician can solve the problem is also bunk. ... Sure, but it [Prop. 187] was ruled un-Constitutional, as it overrode Federal law. And it would have led to that often cited "papers please" authoritarian constant re-checking of proof of citizenship for every official interaction. ... And I suppose no-one in Germany in 1933, or in Italy in 1921, just woke up and let some dictator convince them? Of course that is the way it happens - every time!

But, that's just you trying to apply a stock trope to an issue that has been important to both sides for a long time, long before your "one leader." I see my point about Prop. 187 went flying over your head. The point is, it's been an issue for a long time.

The country is only trying to enforce reasonable immigration restrictions which are actually less stringent than many of the home countries of the illegals and have been in place for years.

Trump is implying however, that crime and drugs etc. are all from the undocumented.

I've never heard anyone claim all crime is from the undocumented.

Trump is using it to get power, and it is a lie. Hitler and Mussolini did the same thing (vilify, dehumanize and then persecute the 'other' for things that they could not possibly have caused). The historical details, crime statistics and economic statistics show that.

You're hallucinating the idea that the USA's restrictions are unusually harsh and became so under a dictator who fooled us all. According to Factchequeado.org:

Barack Obama's administration deported more immigrants than any other in the last 3 decades, according to official figures analyzed by Factchequeado.

[Oldcarpy2]

Facts based in reality are something you do not believe in, why would I waste my time continuing to give them to you?

I have already given you several real world examples of things that are in every day society here in the US, but because it doesn't come from MSM, that you believe to be true, it isn't so you automatically brush it off as nothing.

I get my news from a variety of sources.

I don't follow CNN, Fox News or any US MSM.


So, I will take your snark and give it any due respect, thank you.

[Solvedit]

Native Americans are native Americans. They were there in North and South America before any Europeans or Africans, and well before the existence of the USA.

If anything, it has been colonial Europeans that have filled up and ruined a heavily populated, cultural, civilized and diverse 'pre-Columbus' America.

So....they're not that different from us.  

So why do they get to ignore reasonable immigration restrictions which are often less harsh than their own home countries?

[chr0naut]

Snopes seemed to think the number was around 7.2 million.

Snopes did say that everyone was using different figures... and that the 7.2 million were "encounters at the border" (so, not 'gotaways').

The number of encounters with CBP went way down after January 2025, indicating the current administration's policies are actively discouraging people from trying.

The numbers of encounters at the border after early 2026 is unknown and unreported.

DOGE cut staff who collated and presented data from Immigration and Customs Enforcement and turned off databases relating to Border Protection. So now, not even Trump knows the real numbers, which leaves him free to make up anything he wants and no-one can go to the actual data and prove he is lying.

Department of Government Efficiency - Wikipedia

The only released data for fiscal year 2026, was up to October 2025, under Biden's administration. So, with incomplete data, of course it looks like there were fewer encounters.

If you look at the following official website, you will notice that the graph shows number of encounters for 2026 as almost flatlined across the bottom of the graph (and remember these are 'encounters at the Southwest border', not 'gotaways'):

Southwest Land Border Encounters - U.S. Customs and Border Protection

To believe that suddenly, no-one is trying to cross the border surreptitiously, or that Border Patrols aren't doing their job at all, is ludicrous. Clearly, Trump has turned off the data.

But, that's just you trying to apply a stock trope to an issue that has been important to both sides for a long time, long before your "one leader." I see my point about Prop. 187 went flying over your head. The point is, it's been an issue for a long time.

The pre-existence of issues raised in Proposition 187 didn't fly over my head. I responded directly to that point in my relevant previous post. Yes, there have been previous rumblings about immigration, but crossing the borders undocumented, or overstaying a visa, is still just a legal misdemeanour, and not something that warrants beatings and lifetime imprisonment in a foreign concentration camp.

The country is only trying to enforce reasonable immigration restrictions which are actually less stringent than many of the home countries of the illegals and have been in place for years.
I've never heard anyone claim all crime is from the undocumented.
You're hallucinating the idea that the USA's restrictions are unusually harsh and became so under a dictator who fooled us all. According to Factchequeado.org:

The current US administration is currently arresting, most often with excessive violence, and rendering alleged 'illegals' to foreign concentration camps where they have no legal protection, no right of appeal, and where their length of imprisonment is undefined.

In the process, children have been deported, US citizens have been deported in error, and US citizens have even been killed.

And the current administration has only been office just over three months!

Face it, this isn't like any previous US governments.

[Solvedit]

Snopes did say that everyone was using different figures... and that the 7.2 million were "encounters at the border" (so, not 'gotaways').

From Snopes.com:

As of January 2024, more than 7.2 million migrants had illegally crossed into the U.S. over the Southwest border during U.S. President Joe Biden's administration — a number higher than the individual populations of 36 states.
Rating:
True
True

The numbers of encounters at the border after early 2026 is unknown and unreported.

Not yet reported. So what?

The only released data for fiscal year 2026, was up to October 2025, under Biden's administration. So, with incomplete data, of course it looks like there were fewer encounters.

The current president was inaugurated in January of 2025.

To believe that suddenly, no-one is trying to cross the border surreptitiously, or that Border Patrols aren't doing their job at all, is ludicrous. Clearly, Trump has turned off the data.

More like no more open-border policy.

The pre-existence of issues raised in Proposition 187 didn't fly over my head. I responded directly to that point in my relevant previous post. Yes, there have been previous rumblings about immigration, but crossing the borders undocumented, or overstaying a visa, is still just a legal misdemeanour, and not something that warrants beatings and lifetime imprisonment in a foreign concentration camp.

That's silly. Beatings and lifetime imprisonment? I think you mean they haven't committed to a deadline. Many detainees have already been released. It's bad form to contrive facts to make the narrative fit your stock trope of resisting Nazism early.

The current US administration is currently arresting, most often with excessive violence, and rendering alleged 'illegals' to foreign concentration camps where they have no legal protection, no right of appeal, and where their length of imprisonment is undefined.

So you do know...yet you invent the notion that they're in forever?

In the process, children have been deported, US citizens have been deported in error, and US citizens have even been killed.

If someone's arresting you, even if they're in the wrong, consider not charging them with your car. They might get jumpy and shoot. If they wind up doing time, it won't bring your life back. And consider not packing a handgun and looking for trouble by kicking police vehicles.

And the current administration has only been office just over three months!

Face it, this isn't like any previous US governments.

Try since January of 2025. Why don't you take a break from minding another country's business? You're so hell-bent on crediting yourself virtuously standing up to Nazism that you are contriving facts.

[DBCowboy]

From Snopes.com:

As of January 2024, more than 7.2 million migrants had illegally crossed into the U.S. over the Southwest border during U.S. President Joe Biden's administration — a number higher than the individual populations of 36 states.
Rating:
True
True
Not yet reported. So what?
The current president was inaugurated in January of 2025.
More like no more open-border policy.
That's silly. Beatings and lifetime imprisonment? I think you mean they haven't committed to a deadline. Many detainees have already been released. It's bad form to contrive facts to make the narrative fit your stock trope of resisting Nazism early.
So you do know...yet you invent the notion that they're in forever?
If someone's arresting you, even if they're in the wrong, consider not charging them with your car. They might get jumpy and shoot. If they wind up doing time, it won't bring your life back. And consider not packing a handgun and looking for trouble by kicking police vehicles.
Try since January of 2025. Why don't you take a break from minding another country's business? You're so hell-bent on crediting yourself virtuously standing up to Nazism that you are contriving facts.

Obvious anti-American posts are obvious.



Nice reply though.

 

[chr0naut]

From Snopes.com:

As of January 2024, more than 7.2 million migrants had illegally crossed into the U.S. over the Southwest border during U.S. President Joe Biden's administration — a number higher than the individual populations of 36 states.
Rating:
True
True

These people did try to get into the US, and they did cross over the border to do so, but they encountered Border Patrol officers. They crossed illegally, but were stopped.

They never became immigrants.

They never claimed US social security, they never occupied US housing, they never got a US drivers license, they never occupied a job or drew a wage, they never had time or opportunity to commit any other crime, they never voted in the USA and they never did any of the many things that some Americans accuse illegal immigrants of doing.

The 'gotaways' are the ones who stayed in the US. They are the illegal immigrants.

Not yet reported. So what?

Because, if there are no numbers reported, how can anyone make the claim that Trump's administration is doing better than Biden's? How does anyone, including Trump himself, know?

The current president was inaugurated in January of 2025.

It wasn't until October 2025 that the Biden administration's border statistics were officially made public.

More like no more open-border policy.

Biden did not open the borders nor, at any stage of his administration, have an open borders policy.

That's silly. Beatings and lifetime imprisonment? I think you mean they haven't committed to a deadline. Many detainees have already been released.

These were supposed to be "the worst of the worst", and they are let off already? How could anyone believe them if the administration's arguments are so obviously self-contradictory. Does nobody think?

It's bad form to contrive facts to make the narrative fit your stock trope of resisting Nazism early.
So you do know...yet you invent the notion that they're in forever?
If someone's arresting you, even if they're in the wrong, consider not charging them with your car. They might get jumpy and shoot. If they wind up doing time, it won't bring your life back. And consider not packing a handgun and looking for trouble by kicking police vehicles.
Try since January of 2025. Why don't you take a break from minding another country's business? You're so hell-bent on crediting yourself virtuously standing up to Nazism that you are contriving facts.

Its not Nazism. Its a new and unique situation.