Has Ukraine collapsed

[Creaky]

Ukraine gave up it's nukes in return for Russia guaranteeing it's Sovereignty and security.

Which agreement Russia reneged on.

Russia already has NATO on its is surrendering its sovereignty to the EU borders and has had for a while now.

Ukraine is surrendering its sovereignty to the European Union, irrespective the outcome is as it is, millions dead and i recon it was Biden and Obama

[Creaky]

Honesty? Are you really that naive to think the propaganda posted by Russia about the west and Ukraine is honest??

Honesty? Are you really that naive to think the propaganda posted by the west about Russia and Ukraine is honest??

[Creaky]

Yes, Ukraine government is corrupt to the core.
Yes, Russia are the bad guy invaders.
Two things can be right at the same time.

So, the idea that a corrupt government on your boarder as a threat needing neutralising doesn’t shouldn’t concern neighbours, how is that thing in Venezuela going btw
What a silly comment

[ANNEE]

Well, the rest of the world seems to be getting involved now. So what has changed? Is it about defending democracy worldwide, or pushing it? Is this what Putin thought was happening all along?

Is Zelensky actually collapsing Putin's Russia monetarily where the people will feel it so much so that they may revolt? What were or are now USA's interests...simply to sell war machines, get mineral deals, and/or push China into something or some action? Are the US war ships itching for something to do there in the China Sea?

If the USA had someone with a brain that's more evolved than a psycho-narcissistic 3-year-old in charge -- there might be possible realistic answers.

I think all word leaders are trying to make sense of Trump and how to deal with him.  They're as confused as the rest of us.

But -- if the rest of the world is finding ways to get things done without looking toward the USA for support -- that can go several ways.

[FlyersFan]

So, the idea that a corrupt government on your boarder as a threat needing neutralising doesn’t shouldn’t concern neighbours, .... what a silly comment.

​​​​​​​ ​​​​​​​

Ukraine government is corrupt.
It wasn't invading Russia or causing it harm.

It didn't need invading.
It didn't need it's civilians slaughtered.
It didn't need it's cities leveled.

Yeah ... your comment is the silly one.

[quintessentone]

Sure they can. Contest their source, their accuracy, their objectivity, their implicit definitions, their applicability, or attack the motive in their citation. Or, ignore them all together. We should all be familiar with such by now, because it is almost the entirety of what modern debate has become. Sadly, it reminds me of something I read once:

The more I debated with them the more familiar I became with their tactics in debate. At the outset they counted upon the stupidity of their opponents; but when they got so entangled that they could not find a way out, they played the trick of acting the innocent simpleton.

Should they fail, in spite of their tricks of logic, they acted as if they could not understand the counter-arguments and feeling themselves cornered, hastily transferred the discussion to another field. They uttered truisms and platitudes; and, if you accepted these, took this acceptance as applying to other problems and matters differing essentially from the original theme.

If you cornered them on this point they would escape again, and you could not force them to make any precise statement.

Whenever one tried, to get a firm grip on any of these apostles, one’s hand grasped only a slimy jelly which slipped through the fingers, but coagulated again a moment afterwards.

If your arguments were so telling that your adversary felt forced to give in on account of those listening and if you then thought that at last you had gained ground, a surprise was in store for you on the following day.

He would be utterly oblivious to what had happened the day before, and he would start once again by repeating his former absurdities, and if nothing had happened.

Should you become indignant and remind him of yesterday’s defeat, he pretended astonishment and could not remember anything, except that on the previous day he had proved that his statements were correct.

Sometimes I was dumbfounded. I do not know what amazed me the more —their quickness in repartee or the artful way in which they dressed up their falsehoods.

Written almost 100 years ago.

Specific to this forum, there is no real debate here and there never can be with political or other sensitive subject matter. Facts presented will always be ignored and not considered when bias trumps facts.

[UltraBudgie]

Specific to this forum, there is no real debate here and there never can be with political or other sensitive subject matter. Facts presented will always be ignored and not considered when bias trumps facts.

Then why do you bother? Really?

[FlyersFan]

If the USA had someone with a brain that's more evolved than a psycho-narcissistic 3-year-old in charge -- there might be possible realistic answers.

​​​​​​​
The war started, and continued for years, with BIDEN in charge.
​​​​​​​So ... fail.

[quintessentone]

If the USA had someone with a brain that's more evolved than a psycho-narcissistic 3-year-old in charge -- there might be possible realistic answers.

I think all word leaders are trying to make sense of Trump and how to deal with him.  They're as confused as the rest of us.

But -- if the rest of the world is finding ways to get things done without looking toward the USA for support -- that can go several ways.

Does France know something we don't?

"France formally green lights PANG aircraft carrier production"

"“In this age of predators, we must be strong to be feared. And in particular, strong at sea! That is why, in accordance with the last two military planning laws, and after a thorough and careful review, I have decided to equip France with a new aircraft carrier. The decision to launch the realisation of this major program was made this week.”"

France formally green lights PANG aircraft carrier production - Naval News

He certainly got the descriptive word correct in describing this age, sadly.

[Sky727]

​​​​​​​
The war started, and continued for years, with BIDEN in charge.
​​​​​​​So ... fail.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-explos...b26f864b3c

MOSCOW (AP) — A car bomb killed a Russian general on Monday, the third such killing of a senior military officer in just over a year. Investigators said Ukraine may be behind the attack.
Lt. Gen. Fanil Sarvarov, head of the Operational Training Directorate of the Russian Armed Forces’ General Staff, died from his injuries, said Svetlana Petrenko, the spokesperson for Russia’s Investigative Committee, the nation’s top criminal investigation agency. He was 56.
 
“Investigators are pursuing numerous lines of inquiry regarding the murder. One of these is that the crime was orchestrated by Ukrainian intelligence services,” Petrenko said.
Since Moscow sent troops into Ukraine nearly four years ago, Russian authorities have blamed Kyiv for several assassinations of military officers and public figures in Russia. Ukraine has claimed responsibility for some of them. It has not yet commented on Monday’s death.