Has Ukraine collapsed

[FlyersFan]

Ukraine gave up it's nukes in return for Russia guaranteeing it's Sovereignty and security.

Which agreement Russia reneged on.

Key point that should be underlined in red ink.  

[midicon]

So since you didn't respond, am I correct in assuming you think RFK Jr is lying about everything because he's 'nuts' ?

Don't you tire of the back and forth with people who do not have the capacity of self reflection and honesty?

[Kurokage]

Don't you tire of the back and forth with people who do not have the capacity of self reflection and honesty?

Honesty? Are you really that naive to think the propaganda posted by Russia about the west and Ukraine is honest??

[midicon]

Honesty? Are you really that naive to think the propaganda posted by Russia about the west and Ukraine is honest??

I don't know a single thing about Russian propaganda. I watched the whole thing play out and saw for myself the hand we have played and are still playing in the whole sorry affair.

People like you on the other hand refuse to acknowledge our own culpability. I think people like you and others in this thread are the naive ones swallowing our own propaganda. We aren't any better than Russia. It wasn't so long ago we were rampaging through the Middle East murdering people. I suppose that's okay though because it's us.

[Kurokage]

I don't know a single thing about Russian propaganda. I watched the whole thing play out and saw for myself the hand we have played and are still playing in the whole sorry affair.

People like you on the other hand refuse to acknowledge our own culpability. I think people like you and others in this thread are the naive ones swallowing our own propaganda. We aren't any better than Russia. It wasn't so long ago we were rampaging through the Middle East murdering people. I suppose that's okay though because it's us.

Culpability?  How about the fact that Russia tried to control Ukraine's politics causing the then Prime minster to be removed, who then fled to Russia??  Only invading Ukraine because they didn't get their way.

I'm not swallowing anything. I've spoken with both Polish and Ukrainian people who all say that Russia (since getting back a slither of it's former self) have done nothing but intimidate and meddle in ex-satellite countries.

The middle east has nothing to do this but you seem to also forget that Russian also tried to rampage in the middle east before the west!

People like you blaming the West and Nato, give Putin and the Kremlin excuses to murder and terrorise the Ukrainian people.

[midicon]

Culpability?  How about the fact that Russia tried to control Ukraine's politics causing the then Prime minster to be removed, who then fled to Russia??  Only invading Ukraine because they didn't get their way.

I'm not swallowing anything. I've spoken with both Polish and Ukrainian people who all say that Russia (since getting back a slither of it's former self) have done nothing but intimidate and meddle in ex-satellite countries.

I couldn't care less about Russia controlling Ukraine's politics. I also couldn't care less about who you have spoken to. I care about truth and honesty that's it.

I shouldn't have engaged with you. Sometimes I fall asleep and forget myself.

[Kurokage]

I couldn't care less about Russia controlling Ukraine's politics. I also couldn't care less about who you have spoken to. I care about truth and honesty that's it.

I shouldn't have engaged with you. Sometimes I fall asleep and forget myself.

The "I couldn't care less about Russia controlling Ukraine's politics" speaks volumes.
If you care about truth and honesty then maybe do some research instead of just believing the Russian lies because you dislike the west.
They may not be the honest to god good guys here, but they're a damn site better than Putin and the Kremlin. 

[midicon]

The "I couldn't care less about Russia controlling Ukraine's politics" speaks volumes.
If you care about truth and honesty then maybe do some research instead of just believing the Russian lies because you dislike the west.
They may not be the honest to god good guys but they're a damn site better than Putin. 

Yep, better the illusion than the jackboot!

Such is the way.

[FlyersFan]

I couldn't care less about Russia controlling Ukraine's politics. 

That goes to the whole point of why Russia is in Ukraine.
Ya' kinda' hafta' care if you want to discuss the situation.

[midicon]

That goes to the whole point of why Russia is in Ukraine.
Ya' kinda' hafta' care if you want to discuss the situation.

I care about our involvement and why. I don't have to discuss the obvious.

I watched it all play out as it happened. You might have been asleep and missed it. I can't say.