Has Ukraine collapsed

[Maxmars]

Key point that should be underlined in red ink.  

I can agree whole-hardheartedly, especially since it may have been 'accepted' on the pretense of a theoretical treaty which was somehow never ratified afterwards...

Regardless, the territory, it's people, and their resources and positioning, are not subject to anyone else's will.

Until: .... reasons?

Better be good... you've killed so very many people.


The integrity of Ukraine's as a sovereign people was never actually respected as 'equal' in the region, or the world,... and thus, another 'hot spot.' 

I would cite other examples... but for goodness sake, ... really, ...I need to?

[quintessentone]

I can agree whole-hardheartedly, especially since it may have been 'accepted' on the pretense of a theoretical treaty which was somehow never ratified afterwards...

Regardless, the territory, it's people, and their resources and positioning, are not subject to anyone else's will.

Until: .... reasons?

Better be good... you've killed so very many people.


The integrity of Ukraine's as a sovereign people was never actually respected as 'equal' in the region, or the world,... and thus, another 'hot spot.' 

I would cite other examples... but for goodness sake, ... really, ...I need to?

Well Ukraine's people are certainly being taken seriously as sovereign people fighting for their sovereign country now, I must say.

[midicon]

Well Ukraine's people are certainly being taken seriously as sovereign people fighting for their sovereign country now, I must say.

You really think the Western powers care about the Ukrainian people lol.

We are ruled by psychopaths, behind the scenes for the most part.

It is what it is.

[quintessentone]

You really think the Western powers care about the Ukrainian people lol.

We are ruled by psychopaths, behind the scenes for the most part.

It is what it is.

It seems to be the reality in most countries, but some of us will call them out for what they are.

[sahgwa]

Don't you tire of the back and forth with people who do not have the capacity of self reflection and honesty?

I just asked a simple question.
Based on my own life experience not some news robot. 
Oh it is very tiring indeed.
I came back today just for some fun but my jaws are already tired from pulling the rope back and forth.

[midicon]

It seems to be the reality in most countries, but some of us will call them out for what they are.

I call out my own quintessentone and people get annoyed.

[quintessentone]

I call out my own quintessentone and people get annoyed.

So move past it and call out the facts. Repeat the facts. They can't argue with facts.

[ANNEE]

It seems to be the reality in most countries, but some of us will call them out for what they are.

The rest of the world "should have" come together and told Putin to stay in his own country.

But -- "Money - Power - Control".

Interesting and kind of on topic -- (geo-political competition).

Neil deGrasse Tyson has expressed skepticism about the feasibility of sending humans to Mars without the backdrop of geopolitical competition. He argues that the motivation for space exploration is often driven by the need to compete with other nations, particularly in the context of the Cold War. Tyson suggests that without such a competitive environment, the idea of a crewed mission to Mars may remain unfulfilled.

[UltraBudgie]

So move past it and call out the facts. Repeat the facts. They can't argue with facts.

Sure they can. Contest their source, their accuracy, their objectivity, their implicit definitions, their applicability, or attack the motive in their citation. Or, ignore them all together. We should all be familiar with such by now, because it is almost the entirety of what modern debate has become. Sadly, it reminds me of something I read once:

The more I debated with them the more familiar I became with their tactics in debate. At the outset they counted upon the stupidity of their opponents; but when they got so entangled that they could not find a way out, they played the trick of acting the innocent simpleton.

Should they fail, in spite of their tricks of logic, they acted as if they could not understand the counter-arguments and feeling themselves cornered, hastily transferred the discussion to another field. They uttered truisms and platitudes; and, if you accepted these, took this acceptance as applying to other problems and matters differing essentially from the original theme.

If you cornered them on this point they would escape again, and you could not force them to make any precise statement.

Whenever one tried, to get a firm grip on any of these apostles, one’s hand grasped only a slimy jelly which slipped through the fingers, but coagulated again a moment afterwards.

If your arguments were so telling that your adversary felt forced to give in on account of those listening and if you then thought that at last you had gained ground, a surprise was in store for you on the following day.

He would be utterly oblivious to what had happened the day before, and he would start once again by repeating his former absurdities, and if nothing had happened.

Should you become indignant and remind him of yesterday’s defeat, he pretended astonishment and could not remember anything, except that on the previous day he had proved that his statements were correct.

Sometimes I was dumbfounded. I do not know what amazed me the more —their quickness in repartee or the artful way in which they dressed up their falsehoods.

Written almost 100 years ago.

[quintessentone]

The rest of the world "should have" come together and told Putin to stay in his own country.

But -- "Money - Power - Control".

Interesting and kind of on topic -- (geo-political competition).

Well, the rest of the world seems to be getting involved now. So what has changed? Is it about defending democracy worldwide, or pushing it? Is this what Putin thought was happening all along?

Is Zelensky actually collapsing Putin's Russia monetarily where the people will feel it so much so that they may revolt? What were or are now USA's interests...simply to sell war machines, get mineral deals, and/or push China into something or some action? Are the US war ships itching for something to do there in the China Sea?