Charlie Kirk shot at an event in Utah

[DBCowboy]

I will wait for someone to touch the above related to 'societal cohesion', and not use emotional or straw man arguments and not mention a political figure. That is not good discussion form.
Then we can move onto the other cogent points, like physical and mental health. If people want. 




Meanwhile here is another blurb from Torba I largely agree with (the parts about reclaiming masculinity, and pride in Western civlisation) , and I ain't even Christian. (they are so demonised these days arent they?)  Do I want to live in a theocracy? no. But it is much more natural to live in a society that recognises a divine force exists, and harmony with Universe and divine laws are to be sought, than try to 'conquer the atom' and poison and pervert our very genetic structures and Nature. 

Culture war makes strange bedfellows.
 'Our response cannot be mere political opposition. It must be a total and profound rejection of their entire worldview. We must be the unequivocal champions of life. We must build large, faithful families. We must create beautiful and lasting things. We must reaffirm our connection to God, to our people, and to the land. We must be so generative, so life-affirming, and so filled with purpose that their culture of death simply withers in the shadow of our vitality.
They celebrate the darkness because they have forgotten what the light looks like. It is our duty to shine it so brightly that they are forced to remember, or to look away.
The spirit of the age does not knock politely at the Church’s door; it slithers in directly from the pulpit. The same death cult that celebrates murder in the streets and glorifies mutilation in the classroom has found a comfortable home within the compromised walls of modern Christianity. It has exchanged the robust, world-conquering faith of our fathers for a weak, effeminate, and apologetic social club, a chaplaincy to the very regime that seeks our destruction.
This infiltration is a betrayal of our entire history. Look to the men who built Christendom. They were not managers of decline. They were not anxious pleasers of the world. They were conquerors. They were kings, knights, saints, and martyrs who carved civilization out of wilderness and darkness with the sword of truth and the shield of faith. They understood that the Gospel was not a suggestion; it was a mandate to reclaim every inch of creation for Christ the King.
This was a masculine Christianity. It spoke of order, justice, duty, and victory. It built cathedrals that scraped the heavens, universities that pursued divine wisdom, and legal systems based on eternal law. It tamed empires and baptized cultures. It did not ask for permission from the world; it commanded the world to bend the knee.'

That was fucking brilliant!

Thanks for posting that.

[Ignorant]

No one was railing against women's independence and choice, they were pointing out that Progressive liberalism has obviously led to a breakdown in societal cohesion and mental and physical health.  Just look at the news and this thread. 

You asked which policies, even ignoring abortion, how about DEI for starters? You dont think that creates an us vs them mindset and values racist qualities like skin colour over quality of work?

I would prefer to make a new thread for this. But before I do: Are you open to having a discussion, and coming into it with an open mind and a genuine will to understand a very different perspective?

[sahgwa]

I would prefer to make a new thread for this. But before I do: Are you open to having a discussion, and coming into it with an open mind and a genuine will to understand a very different perspective?

1. I would hope my posting here does not come off as bias trolling because I am not even a registered anything and I am anti politics. so 
2. You asking that , is actually a bit egotistical and a tad condescending so I think it should be obvious I am 'open to having a discussion' since I am here spending my precious time typing to a stranger.

IE you shouldn't feel the need to ask and check on me like I need some kind of education......

[Ignorant]

1. I would hope my posting here does not come off as bias trolling because I am not even a registered anything and I am anti politics. so 
2. You asking that , is actually a bit egotistical and a tad condescending so I think it should be obvious I am 'open to having a discussion' since I am here spending my precious time typing to a stranger.

IE you shouldn't feel the need to ask and check on me like I need some kind of education......

Not saying you need education, I just want to be sure you're here to understand my perspective rather than just to shit on it. The reasons I ask are 1) my experience talking to people about politics here and on ATS is that they are rarely interested in having a real discussion with the "other side", 2) you just reposted an insane rant about liberalism being a death cult and called it a good piece. To me that signals that you're here to shit on liberalism, not to understand it.

But if you say you're willing to have a real discussion I believe you. I'll make a thread when I have time.

[UltraBudgie]

you just reposted an insane rant about liberalism being a death cult and called it a good piece. To me that signals that you're here to shit on liberalism, not to understand it.

I think you're being slightly unfair. You yourself could be perceived as mischaracterizing, selectively summarizing, and disregarding a point-of-view by discarding it as an "insane rant". That said what you're saying is laudable, but it is a two-way street.

[sahgwa]

Not saying you need education, I just want to be sure you're here to understand my perspective rather than just to shit on it. The reasons I ask are 1) my experience talking to people about politics here and on ATS is that they are rarely interested in having a real discussion with the "other side", 2) you just reposted an insane rant about liberalism being a death cult and called it a good piece. To me that signals that you're here to shit on liberalism, not to understand it.

But if you say you're willing to have a real discussion I believe you. I'll make a thread when I have time.

I am here to poke people into thinking and to share things that I agree with whether in whole or in part. I do not ascribe to any political party or specific ideology but I definitely lean into the pro free speech traditional historical biological logical end of things, if that makes any modicum of sense.  I also enjoy playing devil's advocate and taking positions I may not agree with to see what people say or do.


If Mr Torba thinks liberalism is a death cult then that's his right.  I just agree when he says it's policies seem to be causing disunity, fragmentation and hate, more than they are helping to end those things. Simple as that. 

We all look forward to your thread.

[SomeStupidName]

Not saying you need education, I just want to be sure you're here to understand my perspective rather than just to shit on it. The reasons I ask are 1) my experience talking to people about politics here and on ATS is that they are rarely interested in having a real discussion with the "other side", 2) you just reposted an insane rant about liberalism being a death cult and called it a good piece. To me that signals that you're here to shit on liberalism, not to understand it.

But if you say you're willing to have a real discussion I believe you. I'll make a thread when I have time.

See it's the way you word it. Open to conversation sure, looking to understand it!? No more than you looking to understand conservatism....no thanks. We can live on the same land and not agree on politics and shouldn't have to worry it will come to blood. Nobody was rounding up groups based on their skin color or where they decide to keep their genitals. What happened is a small group popped up and trying to demonize one group against another group for shit they didn't even do in their lifetimes or families had not legally immigrated here yet which has now caused a deep fracture in a system that provided the best life for any human regardless of any situation they came from. This group has demanded that the whole system be burnt to the ground and reforged in the image of their choosing and if you question it they want you dead. That is were we are right now but you want us to understand why that is a good thing. Oh don't take it personally when someone shits on your perspective it's actually pretty healthy to get that kind of a challenge in your life.

[sahgwa]

See it's the way you word it. Open to conversation sure, looking to understand it!? No more than you looking to understand conservatism....no thanks. We can live on the same land and not agree on politics and shouldn't have to worry it will come to blood. Nobody was rounding up groups based on their skin color or where they decide to keep their genitals. What happened is a small group popped up and trying to demonize one group against another group for shit they didn't even do in their lifetimes or families had not legally immigrated here yet which has now caused a deep fracture in a system that provided the best life for any human regardless of any situation they came from. This group has demanded that the whole system be burnt to the ground and reforged in the image of their choosing and if you question it they want you dead. That is were we are right now but you want us to understand why that is a good thing. Oh don't take it personally when someone shits on your perspective it's actually pretty healthy to get that kind of a challenge in your life.

Exactly! Even beyond ignoring loaded emotionalism like 'insane rant' , it's a blessing to be challenged to defend your beliefs!  To make yourself stronger.
That's part of what I loved in the Torba piece. 

Not 'wa, this person is not worth talking to I am going to ban him or shoot him'

[Ignorant]

I do want to understand conservatism, that's why I'm here. I specifically went looking for conservative-dominated online forums because I want to talk to conservatives. I've learned a lot since, both about conservatism and about myself. I would in fact recommend it to everyone (with thick skin).

[Ignorant]

I think you're being slightly unfair. You yourself could be perceived as mischaracterizing, selectively summarizing, and disregarding a point-of-view by discarding it as an "insane rant". That said what you're saying is laudable, but it is a two-way street.

I get the sentiment but there are limits. By this same logic, we should have heard Hitler out (the Germans did, unfortunately). When we characterize the entire other side of the political spectrum as a death cult full of hatred, there's no chance for a real conversation anymore because we're not living in reality.

If liberalism is a death cult, what sort of measures to combat it would we support? This quickly gets dangerous. Civil war territory. These kinds of takes should be forcefully and unequivocally denounced.