(12-09-2025, 11:07 AM)FlyersFan Wrote: .... says the guy who thinks Noahs Ark is a true story.  

Why are you running away from UltraBudgies excellent on topic question?  You are the one putting forward how wonderful  Communist China and expansionist Russia are.  Give examples of the non-agenda-driven altruism you claim ... and show how there are no strings attached.  Show how Communist China and expansionist Russia aren't expecting something in return (which would be a massive miracle since EVERY big nation expects something in return).   You put forward a position for discussion on a forum ... well ... discuss it!

Communist China and Russia seem more altruistic than the West was my question
Feel free to read anything and everything into that, I don’t care

(12-09-2025, 11:10 AM)Creaky Wrote: Communist China and Russia seem more altruistic than the West ...

And the request for examples of non-agenda altruism was asked for.
You are the one making the claim.   Back it up.
Show how Communist China and expansionist Russia aren't expecting
a quid pro quo.

(12-09-2025, 10:55 AM)Thetruth Wrote: Well someone clearly hasn't been paying attention.

Maybe have a good look at the details China and Russia have been offering these nations.  
Loan shark comes to mind.

Yeah nah, don’t believe you
And no, China has a plan, obviously

(12-09-2025, 10:11 AM)Creaky Wrote: So, educate me 
Once upon a time, I stood in awe of the US, maybe that was their involvement in WW2, who knows. To much John Wayne
I thought they were the good guys
Now, all I see is the US pushing agendas, “we will loan you money, at cost but, we also expect you to push these “woke” agendas” .
(Not just the US, EU as well)
I could link plenty of references but, just playing for the moment, if you don’t know, you don’t know, don’t play

Anyway, now I see both Russia and China lending money, giving money, building infrastructure in Third World or developing economies with no strings.
Yes of course their are strings, everyone who gives away money has strings, expectations
But, no political strings, no brutal financial burdens and absolutely no woke agendas to get the aid
So, if you know, what am I seeing/saying is wrong, be grateful for an education
Now, no personal feelings, no msm sensationalism.
Am I the only one seeing this

The picture's a lot messier than it looks.

Western aid usually comes with political rules because democracies want to know their money isn't funding corruption or dictators.

It's not "woke," it's accountability.

Russia and China absolutely attach strings, just quieter ones, long-term debt, control of ports, access to resources, political silence about their abuses.

Countries often end up stuck, not helped.

So the idea that the West is preachy and China/Russia are "no-strings nice guys" is basically a myth.

They just hide the strings better.

(12-09-2025, 10:11 AM)Creaky Wrote:  

While Russia and China aren’t better, I hear you America and Europe has fallen. The world is run by globalists now, there might be different factions but basically they want the same thing, technocratic facism for everyone and it’s already nearly there. People still think we have an actual democracy and voting changes anything.

(12-09-2025, 11:13 AM)Creaky Wrote: Yeah nah, don’t believe you
And no, China has a plan, obviously

You don't have to believe me.  There is plenty of written case where China has screwed over a country.

Take my Ex wife's home country Ecuador.  China  offered to build a state of the art tram line through Cuenca at a low cost. How kind right?

Well half way through construction China changed the deal and demanded oil rights in a protected part of their rainforest.  Ecuador had to either change their law and give China access or be left with a half finished rail line. Also China hiked the cost.

(12-09-2025, 10:11 AM)Creaky Wrote: So, educate me 
Once upon a time, I stood in awe of the US, maybe that was their involvement in WW2, who knows. To much John Wayne
I thought they were the good guys
Now, all I see is the US pushing agendas, “we will loan you money, at cost but, we also expect you to push these “woke” agendas” .
(Not just the US, EU as well)
I could link plenty of references but, just playing for the moment, if you don’t know, you don’t know, don’t play

Anyway, now I see both Russia and China lending money, giving money, building infrastructure in Third World or developing economies with no strings.
Yes of course their are strings, everyone who gives away money has strings, expectations
But, no political strings, no brutal financial burdens and absolutely no woke agendas to get the aid
So, if you know, what am I seeing/saying is wrong, be grateful for an education
Now, no personal feelings, no msm sensationalism.
Am I the only one seeing this

For one thing, the U.S. is officially done with "woke agenda". Now it's unapologetic about it's genocide and slavery of the past. Now it's white European and Anglophone Manifest Destiny along with Christian spiritual values for America.

See   Trump National Security Strategy - 2025. 33 page pdf.

Quote:We want to maintain the United States’ unrivaled “soft power” through which we exercise positive influence throughout the world that furthers our interests. In doing so, we will be unapologetic about our country’s past and present while respectful of other countries’ differing religions, cultures, and governing systems. “Soft power” that serves America’s true national interest is effective only if we believe in our country’s inherent greatness and decency.

Finally, we want the restoration and reinvigoration of American spiritual and cultural health, without which long-term security is impossible. We want an America that cherishes its past glories and its heroes, and that looks forward to a new golden age. We want a people who are proud, happy, and optimistic that they will leave their country to the next generation better than they found it. We want a gainfully employed citizenry—with no one sitting on the sidelines—who take satisfaction from knowing that their work is essential to the prosperity of our nation and to the well-being of individuals and families. This cannot be accomplished without growing numbers of strong, traditional families that raise healthy children

 
The whole document is a must read.

It's the Trump Monroe Doctrine. The US will dictate who can import to the Western Hemisphere and where the resources of the Western Hemisphere may go to (US of coarse).

US Embassies in each nation will double as lobbyists for US corporations. Imagine how cool it must be to get government pay check while collecting lobbying fees from 10 or 20 corporations at the same time. Kaching!!!

Quote:Every U.S. official working in or on the region must be up to speed on the full picture of detrimental outside influence while simultaneously applying pressure and offering incentives to partner countries to protect our Hemisphere. Successfully protecting our Hemisphere also requires closer collaboration between the U.S. Government and the American private sector. All our embassies must be aware of major business opportunities in their country, especially major government contracts. Every U.S. Government official that interacts with these countries should understand that part of their job is to help American companies compete and succeed.

The U.S. Government will identify strategic acquisition and investment opportunities for American companies in the region and present these opportunities for assessment by every U.S. Government financing program, including but not limited to those within the Departments of State, War, and Energy; the Small Business Administration; the International Development Finance Corporation; the Export-Import Bank; and the Millennium Challenge Corporation.

pg 18

I think that the US and Russia will be backing the same political parties in Europe; the ones that swing furthest to the right.

(12-09-2025, 12:17 PM)Bootless Wrote: For one thing, the U.S. is officially done with "woke agenda". Now it's unapologetic about it's genocide and slavery of the past. Now it's white European and Anglophone Manifest Destiny along with Christian spiritual values for America.

See   Trump National Security Strategy - 2025. 33 page pdf.
 
The whole document is a must read.

It's the Trump Monroe Doctrine. The US will dictate who can import to the Western Hemisphere and where the resources of the Western Hemisphere may go to (US of coarse).

US Embassies in each nation will double as lobbyists for US corporations. Imagine how cool it must be to get government pay check while collecting lobbying fees from 10 or 20 corporations at the same time. Kaching!!!

I think that the US and Russia will be backing the same political parties in Europe; the ones that swing furthest to the right.

Yeah but nah, that won’t just change over night, wish it could but that is ingrained in the younger culture now

(12-09-2025, 11:27 AM)Thetruth Wrote: You don't have to believe me.  There is plenty of written case where China has screwed over a country.

Take my Ex wife's home country Ecuador.  China  offered to build a state of the art tram line through Cuenca at a low cost. How kind right?

Well half way through construction China changed the deal and demanded oil rights in a protected part of their rainforest.  Ecuador had to either change their law and give China access or be left with a half finished rail line. Also China hiked the cost.

Well that’s why I asked the question, those plenty of written cases should come to light
Thanks

(12-09-2025, 11:15 AM)andy06shake Wrote: The picture's a lot messier than it looks.

Western aid usually comes with political rules because democracies want to know their money isn't funding corruption or dictators.

It's not "woke," it's accountability.

Russia and China absolutely attach strings, just quieter ones, long-term debt, control of ports, access to resources, political silence about their abuses.

Countries often end up stuck, not helped.

So the idea that the West is preachy and China/Russia are "no-strings nice guys" is basically a myth.

They just hide the strings better.

Look at Burkina Faso, France raped and pillaged the country for decades, Russia are now supporting the independent government and France has been kicked out 
That has to be a good thing, no? 
Sending money, training troops, not suggesting altruism, just supporting a developing country.
Of course the Russians have an agenda, never suggested they didn’t
At least Russia aren’t flat out destroying the countries economy