What to do about the 9 percent without American pride

[Kurokage]

I've posted similar in other threads but I think this also good for this thread...

[Maxmars]

I don't trust any "political" player.... period.

They are all agents of a party... and truthfully, I don't think it's exactly political.

DEI is a pop-foible.  A think-tank propaganda stratagem... and it's probably not even one of ours.

Common sense and reason need not be an element of theater, but reality demands it.
DEI demanded constant media fire... and lots of activists hate.

Boring discourse doesn't sell... true... but wisdom doesn't kill...

National pride needs to be examined early in life.  One of the first questions posed to a young citizen needs to be... "How will you help?" not "It's all about what you want!"  It should be an early choice... "Will I be 'part' of this nation, or not?"

I have pride in that I can live here, and my children are safer here than elsewhere... I have pride that this was no accident, that many of us are wiling to serve... 

But activism brings now the theatricality of "insult" shock... because it is on the attack.  It incites rage and resentment... the hooks in at least my empathy... 

The new activism is about using racist inflammatory imagery sans race.

Nothing new here... except the media can make billions from consumers.... needing to be emotionally shocked... a roller coaster thrill... glad it's not me.... cant wait for the meme.

[quintessentone]

@Maxmars

"National pride needs to be examined early in life.  One of the first questions posed to a young citizen needs to be... "How will you help?" not "It's all about what you want!"  It should be an early choice... "Will I be 'part' of this nation, or not?""

It is about what people need.

They need affordable food, gas to get to a job, and a roof over their heads. These necessities are not achievable in your nation.

It's time to listen not only to the young citizens but all citizens who are struggling.

[Maxmars]

It is about what people need.

They need affordable food, gas to get to a job, and a roof over their heads. These necessities are not achievable in your nation.

It's time to listen not only to the young citizens but all citizens who are struggling.

Then perhaps we are talking about different things.

Even the abjectly poor and under-served somehow muster national pride.... would you think that listening to the children in other countries will help?  I don't mean that facetiously,  I have never ignore the 'voices' of children... 

But in a binary-fixated world where if you are not proud, you are hateful seems unproductive...

I do love my country, flawed as it is... and I have to add that it implies I love my countrymen, as archaic and naive as that might be.  

I express this as pride....

Activist-inclined dissenters will force their conceived shame on you... done and done.

I saw it when my cousin returned from Viet Nam.... it hasn't changed...

You served the government I love to hate?.... I hate you - (you are garbage, trash, better off dead.)

(Oddly enough, many great world leaders feel the same... congrats, you're not alone.)


@Q - please rest assured that NONE of the characterizations or observations are about you personally.  I will never do that to you. Respect, always.

I fear that the general inaction and ineffectiveness parade that is our government has a lot to with why things suck.  In don't have food for my table, a car that wont work, and a fixed income....  I know shit is bad.

But I don't blame "my country"  - only those who can make a difference but won't.

Shame doesn't enter into it.

[quintessentone]

Then perhaps we are talking about different things.

Even the abjectly poor and under-served somehow muster national pride.... would you think that listening to the children in other countries will help?  I don't mean that facetiously,  I have never ignore the 'voices' of children... 

But in a binary-fixated world where if you are not proud, you are hateful seems unproductive...

I do love my country, flawed as it is... and I have to add that it implies I love my countrymen, as archaic and naive as that might be.  

I express this as pride....

Activist-inclined dissenters will force their conceived shame on you... done and done.

I saw it when my cousin returned from Viet Nam.... it hasn't changed...

You served the government I love to hate?.... I hate you - (you are garbage, trash, better off dead.)

(Oddly enough, many great world leaders feel the same... congrats, you're not alone.)


@Q - please rest assured that NONE of the characterizations or observations are about you personally.  I will never do that to you. Respect, always.

I fear that the general inaction and ineffectiveness parade that is our government has a lot to with why things suck.  In don't have food for my table, a car that wont work, and a fixed income....  I know shit is bad.

But I don't blame "my country"  - only those who can make a difference but won't.

Shame doesn't enter into it.

Sorry, I've just been watching Americans crying out for Trump to help them survive economically and it broke my heart. They could still very well love their country, but not being headed for poverty.

[Maxmars]

Maybe... and I am not looking to support the and off-topic drift....

It's never about the actor... it's about the producer.

None have "saved" us... but they all take credit for it when it happens,
None have "discovered" the solution... but they all KNOW it was their political opponents who caused it,
None call for calm and peace.... EVER.

Yeah,  the narrative is fraught with disingenuous and hazy garbage.

Politicians serve the party...
God only knows who the parties serve... it's clearly not all citizens.

[Bootless]

DEI is a pop-foible.  A think-tank propaganda stratagem... and it's probably not even one of ours.

I don't think you looked up the History of DEI.
Post Civil War for the benefit of Vets, widows, and orphans. Not exactly a pop-foible.

Just about every act or executive order was aimed at benefitting Vets, military dependents, etc. Like a married service member based overseas; the spouse gets priority in job placements on base, seems reasonable to me.

Then it expanded to the blind, disabled, and led to non discrimination on race, religion, sex.

[Bootless]

I've posted similar in other threads but I think this also good for this thread...

[Video: https://youtu.be/ZxWfUVkpm6A?si=ZWFL36s4HtggPH4v]

That's it exactly!!!

Now I'm no necromancer, though I may play one on TV,
well not TV exactly, but have you noticed that computer monitors look a lot like TVs?

But I can imagine old George Carlin in that garage in Buffalo, cursing,
well maybe not cursing, but at least using some of those
7 forbidden words:

"All the time I spent getting it all down so as to be easily understood,
and do they fucking get it?

Hell no!

Why did I bother?

Oh yeah, at least I got those past bills paid.

I think I did. Where's my accountant?"

[Maxmars]

I don't think you looked up the History of DEI.
Post Civil War for the benefit of Vets, widows, and orphans. Not exactly a pop-foible.

Just about every act or executive order was aimed at benefitting Vets, military dependents, etc. Like a married service member based overseas; the spouse gets priority in job placements on base, seems reasonable to me.

Then it expanded to the blind, disabled, and led to non discrimination on race, religion, sex.

Respectfully... I didn't "look up" DEI because I lived it.

Regardless of how successful academicians have been at embracing old utterances into their pop wisdom has no bearing on what I lived.... because whether you like it or not the ACTIVIST DEI Movement was a 21st century invention. 

The spurious way these people have legitimized their violent assault on social order can never be understated.  It replaced everything in it's path with spiteful revenge.  Welcome to joy joy joy.

Outside of class, ethnicity, race, religious choice, lifestyle choices, are now added revenge/equity.

No.... that's not rational.... in the 1800's this was not "a thing."

[Ray1990]

No.  Don't dis vets anywhere.  Ever.   Some of them have sacrificed everything for you.   If you didn't serve, you don't have the standing to judge them.  Ever.

Most other nations don't put their armed forces on such a high plinth, I've knew a few soldiers for years before I actually found out about their service. The others I did talk to all had similar experiences. 

They judged themselves worse than the public ever could. Dark humour, they were just out there defending penguins (Falklands) shooting rice pickers (Korea) or separating goat shaggers from their goats and towels (Iraq & Afghanistan) the sense I often got was they hardly ever get the chance to be frank about their experiences because others think they should celebrate the nutters they became.

Then there's the places a couple of them fought where they really shouldn't have been, even positive judgement is still judgement, it's still a stereotype. In one of my talks I saw someone berated for thanking an ex SBS member for his service. He'd happily share a pint and stories but he knew fine and well he wanted no thanks for his deeds.

Maybe I just met some weirdos? Doubtful though considering the state of mental health amongst vets.

I'm not a vet, wanted to be though. I'll always lend an ear and that's why I bothered with this post, I wish to see vets finding less stress when it comes to chewing out what we've collectively asked them to do.  I have a suspicion that holding them to such high standards can be problematic for them.

If they can't justify it beyond "just doing my job, my jobs fucked up" then are we being helpful by doing it for them?