Welcome to the grand illusion

[andy06shake]

The teachers unions are in bed with the department of education with the teachers union having great influence over the department of education with spending members dues to influence and lobby who goes into the department of education.  

Sounds like a conspiracy theory dressed up as insight to me.

Teachers unions don't control the Department of Education. 

They're advocacy groups, not puppet masters.

Yes, they lobby, like every major organisation in a democracy.

That's called participating in the political process, not running it.

The Department of Education is influenced by Congress, and thousands of independent policymakers.

It's not a cabal of overworked teachers paying modest union dues.

If unions truly wielded that kind of power, teachers wouldn't still be buying their own classroom supplies or working two jobs to get by. 

Reality, sadly, is far less dramatic.

I think you just hate teachers, WallFlowerActive, because they educate children appropriately.

[andy06shake]

Have you ever thought of not sounding like a propaganda rag for big government where I’m  citing sources clearly showing and providing evidence of clear corruption in the US school system.

How about you stop being dismissive about situations in another country you try to white wash while ignoring cited sources.

Well, if you can ignore reality and make up nonsense, what's good for the goose...

Corruption exists everywhere, but yelling "big government propaganda" every time someone disagrees with your narrative doesn't make you a truth-teller.

It just makes you sound butthurt. 

Evidence means credible, peer-reviewed data, not outrage headlines.

And facts aren't "whitewash" just because they ruin your rant. 

Again if you don't like your educational system or establishments.

Do it yourself, and see how that works out. 

And the news piece you posted as ""evidence"" exaggerates the control over the Education Department.

Unions advocate for education funding, no evidence shows they "bent" your federal policy.

You hate teachers, just admit it, because you don't like the fact that they may teach your children some inconvenient truths.

And that's about it really. 

[WallFlowerActive]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory dressed up as insight to me.

And yet the US is ranked very high on its spending on education and spending per student.  Yet consistently falls below average on the quality of education compared to other countries.


A quick down and dirty.



The US keeps dumping huge amounts of money in the department of education and teachers unions only to have subpar education compare to other countries.

Are the teachers unions about actual education, or maintaining there status quo.

You may actually read this quoted post.

They hate when you quote Chomsky at them:

Well, that's pretty much what the schools are like, I think: they reward discipline and obedience, and they punish independence of mind. If you happen to be a little innovative, or maybe you forgot to come to school one day because you were reading a book or something, that's a tragedy, that's a crime–because you're not supposed to think, you're supposed to obey, and just proceed through the material in whatever way they require.

And in fact, most of the people who make it through the education system and get into the elite universities are able to do it because they've been willing to obey a lot of stupid orders for years and years–that's the way I did it, for example. Like, you're told by some teacher, "do this," which you know makes no sense whatsoever, but you do it, and if you do it you get thinnest rung, and then you obey the next order, and finally you work your way through and they give you your letters: an awful lot of education is like that, form the very beginning. Some people go along with it because they figure, "Okay, I'll do any stupid thing that asshole says because I want to get ahead"; others do it because they've just internalized the values–but after a while, those two things tend to get sort of blurred. But you do it or else you're put: you ask too many questions and you're going to get in trouble. ¹




¹ https://dayonecomptwo.files.wordpress.co...chools.doc Noam Chomsky: “On Schools”, from Understanding Power, 2002. (2 page doc file)

Instead of you just being part of the grand illusion.

 Again, you read like a propaganda rag for big government with no desire for accountability.  No desire for checks and balances.  You seem like you’re more worried about giving lip service to glorious leaders.

[WallFlowerActive]

Evidence means credible, peer-reviewed data, not outrage headlines.

Again.  The reality is the US is dumping huge amounts of money into education.  More than most developed nations.  Only by actual testing being subpar to other developed nations.

That’s been a known fact you are trying to whitewash.  

Where again.  I’m at least citing fact.  You only offer propaganda and false assurances.  You are part of the grand illusion.  And you can’t see your own irony.

[andy06shake]

And yet the US is ranked very high on its spending on education and spending per student.  Yet consistently falls below average on the quality of education compared to other countries.


A quick down and dirty.

[Image: https://denyignorance.com/uploader/images/IMG_1738.jpeg]

The US keeps dumping huge amounts of money in the department of education and teachers unions only to have subpar education compare to other countries.

Are the teachers unions about actual education, or maintaining there status quo.

You may actually read this quoted post.

Instead of you just being part of the grand illusion.

 Again, you read like a propaganda rag for big government with no desire for accountability.  No desire for checks and balances.  You seem like you’re more worried about giving lip service to glorious leaders.

Again, your argument oversimplifies complex issues into lazy anti-union, anti-establishment talking points.

U.S. education outcomes lag not because of "big government" or "teacher unions" but down to to socioeconomic inequality, local property tax-based funding, and lack of national standards.

The teachers' unions protect your educators from exploitation and advocate for smaller class sizes and better resources.

Things that actually improve learning.

Chomsky's quote critiques institutional conformity, not teachers, try reading it. 

And blaming unions ignores systemic causes like poverty, healthcare, and poor housing which cripple kids achievement.

It's not propaganda to demand accountability rooted in evidence.

Rather than emotional, ideologically driven scapegoating.

You simply wish to hate these people because you don't like what they are teaching your children. 

Again, i suggest you homeschool your own kids if it's such an imposition, problem solved as long as you are capable. 

[WallFlowerActive]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory dressed up as insight to me.

More known fact..  Not conspiracy.  
 

How teachers unions and bureaucracy often fail to protect studentsSexual misconduct by public school educators is becoming disturbingly more common and teacher unions often shield offenders from consequences.https://capitalresearch.org/article/how-...-students/

[WallFlowerActive]

Again, your argument oversimplifies complex issues into lazy anti-union, anti-establishment talking points.

And yet the fact is the Teachers Unions and the Department of Education despite huge amounts of money are resulting in poor education compared to other developed countries.  

The US is falling behind because of the DOE and teachers unions bad vision and messed up priorities.

[andy06shake]

Again.  The reality is the US is dumping huge amounts of money into education.  More than most developed nations.  Only by actual testing being subpar to other developed nations.

That’s been a known fact you are trying to whitewash.  

Where again.  I’m at least citing fact.  You only offer propaganda and false assurances.  You are part of the grand illusion.  And you can’t see your own irony.

Unfortunately for you the high spending doesn't equal high results.

And the costs also reflects healthcare, infrastructure, and inequality, not better teaching.

Facts demand nuance, not slogans, and complex problems aren't solved by simplistic blame.

What you are citing is opinion disguised as fact.

What's ironic is your persistence and misplaced hatred for people who only wish to do the job they were given and educate children. 

Again, if you don't like the places or the people who work there, educate your own kids. 

[andy06shake]

More known fact..  Not conspiracy.  

From a research center that's a conservative think tank?

Known to be ideologically right-wing.

Critiqued for selective partisan reporting.

If you say so. 

[andy06shake]

And yet the fact is the Teachers Unions and the Department of Education despite huge amounts of money are resulting in poor education compared to other developed countries.  

The US is falling behind because of the DOE and teachers unions bad vision and messed up priorities.

The struggles stem from funding inequality, and poverty, not solely unions or the DOE.

Teachers' unions advocate for fair pay and resources.

Blaming them ignores the socioeconomic factors and policy choices.

But i can't spend all afternoon arguing with the likes of you over a hatred of education and teachers.

Children's birthday party to attend too.

Have fun hating the very people who are there to help, not hurt.