Vladimir Putin 'spits in Trump's face'

[andy06shake]

No one is saying in this scenario that Russia would force an alliance on Mexico.
I am just saying, please look at it from Russia's side, and no I am not supporting Russia nor Ukraine.
Mexico willingly allies with Russia for business,and a bloc in the region, and stations 'advisors' and has troops there in a 'training' capacity, just like we do and I have visited in Romania, and Ukraine etc, and would these Russian troops be tolerated by the USA?
Perhaps the US would 'invade' English speaking areas that were being abused by the Mexicans . 
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If you think Putin really wants to conquer the whole of Europe you are mad, mate.

I'm old enough to remember the arse end of the last Cold War and know perfectly well which side my bread is buttered, sahgwa.
 
And just like your own nation, and Ukraine, it sure as sh@t is not Russian side up.

Never has been, or likely to be any time soon.
 
It's not me that's mad, Vladimir, on the other hand....
 
I think it's rather clear that the man wishes to see his nation return to something reminiscent of the old Soviet Bloc era, geographically speaking.
 
And they had one clear goal in mind.

If in doubt, you may wish to look at the scorched earth nuclear plans regarding what would have happened if an all-out Soviet invasion ever took place.
 
Additionally, your analogy still breaks down.
 
Mexico is a fully sovereign state and could legally host any advisors it wants, just as Ukraine can.
 
The U.S. might object diplomatically, but it still couldn't claim a right to seize Mexican territory.
 
Even if a great power feels uncomfortable, that hardly equates to a legal or moral license to invade a peaceful neighbour.
 
Security concerns explain tensions, but it doesn't give carte blanche excuse for violating borders or annexing land by force.

[sahgwa]

I'm old enough to remember the arse end of the last Cold War and know perfectly well which side my bread is buttered, sahgwa.
 
And just like your own nation, and Ukraine, it sure as sh@t is not Russian side up.

Never has been, or likely to be any time soon.
 
It's not me that's mad, Vladimir, on the other hand....
 
I think it's rather clear that the man wishes to see his nation return to something reminiscent of the old Soviet Bloc era, geographically speaking.
 
And they had one clear goal in mind.

If in doubt, you may wish to look at the scorched earth nuclear plans regarding what would have happened if an all-out Soviet invasion ever took place.
 
Additionally, your analogy still breaks down.
 
Mexico is a fully sovereign state and could legally host any advisors it wants, just as Ukraine can.
 
The U.S. might object diplomatically, but it still couldn't claim a right to seize Mexican territory.
 
Even if a great power feels uncomfortable, that hardly equates to a legal or moral license to invade a peaceful neighbour.
 
Security concerns explain tensions, but it dossent give carte blanche excuse for violating borders or annexing land by force.

I have just been reading speeches from Putin and following the actions of their nation for many years as well, and nowhere has he seemed to be powerhungry to invade for more territory, let alone 'the whole of Europe '
If anything he has shown in my opinion, much restraint in the poking that NATO and Anglo American allies have been doing at his borders, which any other nation would not have tolerated.  So its all a matter of perspective. 
If he was as mad as the propaganda tainted brains as a lot of people seem to think he would have launched missiles into Mainland Europe by now. 
He saw the geopolitical games that Obama, Nuland, McCain et al were playing and tried to oust American influence in Kiev. It didnt work obviously.

[andy06shake]

I have just been reading speeches from Putin and following the actions of their nation for many years as well, and nowhere has he seemed to be powerhungry to invade for more territory

Aside from invading Ukraine and Crimea, you mean?

Recognised by the Russian Federation back in 1991 as a sovereign nation....

He won't stop at Ukraine any more than Hitler would have stopped at Poland.

What about Georgia?

[sahgwa]

Aside from invading Ukraine and Crimea, you mean?

Recognised by the Russian Federation back in 1991 as a sovereign nation....

He won't stop at Ukraine any more than Hitler would have stopped at Poland.

i respectfully disagree; Ukraine is a special case. It was Russian and they essentially (shock) speak Russian. DO I think they should have been invaded? no.
But I also dont think Kiev should have shelled it's own citizens.
Its essentially the same situation as Kosovo. 
This doesn't mean the Serbs 'had their eyes on Greece or Macedonia' because of their 'Christian brothers' 

 It's an internal affair that the Anglo American sphere used to their geopolitical advantage, in a very corrupt way.

[Oldcarpy2]

i respectfully disagree; Ukraine is a special case. It was Russian and they essentially (shock) speak Russian. DO I think they should have been invaded? no.
But I also dont think Kiev should have shelled it's own citizens.
Its essentially the same situation as Kosovo. 
This doesn't mean the Serbs 'had their eyes on Greece or Macedonia' because of their 'Christian brothers' 

 It's an internal affair that the Anglo American sphere used to their geopolitical advantage, in a very corrupt way.

What?

Ukraine gave up it's nukes in return for Russia guarantying it's Sovereignty etc.

Bollox.

[andy06shake]

i respectfully disagree; Ukraine is a special case. It was Russian and they essentially (shock) speak Russian. DO I think they should have been invaded? no.
But I also dont think Kiev should have shelled it's own citizens.
Its essentially the same situation as Kosovo. 
This doesn't mean the Serbs 'had their eyes on Greece or Macedonia' because of their 'Christian brothers' 

 It's an internal affair that the Anglo American sphere used to their geopolitical advantage, in a very corrupt way.

It's your right to disagree, stuff living in a world where that is not the case.

But i respectfully suggest your argument conflates language/ethnicity with sovereignty.

Speaking Russian doesn't automatically justify invasion.

Else, anywhere on Earth where English is spoken would belong to the UK. 

And again, international law has recognised Ukraine's territorial sovereignty since 1991.

Comparing Ukraine to Kosovo is a bit of an oversimplification.

Kosovo was about ethnic cleansing, as far as i seem to recall.

And the claim that "Kyiv" shelled its own citizens lacks credible evidence.

It's clear that the civilian casualties are overwhelmingly due to Russian attacks via artillery, drone, and cruise missile salvos. 

There is no real doubt about the fact.

Saying it's about "Christian brothers" misses the point.

Russia's main goal is expanding power, not to help anyone.

Blaming it all on "Anglo-American geopolitics" ignores that Russia is the one who invaded and continues to attack.

What really matters is who has the right to run their own country and who is actually causing the violence, not what language people speak or what ethnic group they belong to.

[sahgwa]

And the claim that "Kyiv" shelled its own citizens lacks credible evidence.

There used to be documentaries and news stories in 2014 from BBC no less about the Ukrainians shelling their own citizens in the East, I would not be surprised, if internet being such as it is, those things were scrubbed.




My point is; this is an internal civil war first and foremost that became a proxy war and as many have stated ad nauseum, if there were no DC meddling in Kiev there would have been no Russian invasion. simple as that.

[andy06shake]

There used to be documentaries and news stories in 2014 from BBC no less about the Ukrainians shelling their own citizens in the East, I would not be surprised, if internet being such as it is, those things were scrubbed.

[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcuuv_nmKF0]

My point is; this is an internal civil war first and foremost that became a proxy war and as many have stated ad nauseum, if there were no DC meddling in Kiev there would have been no Russian invasion. simple as that.

It's not as simple as that at all.

Calling it a "civil war" ignores the clear evidence.

Russia invaded Ukraine with troops, missiles, and annexation attempts.

That's aggression, not an internal conflict.

Ukraine's government is internationally recognised, and has been since 1991.

A fact which you simply cannot ignore.

Blaming the U.S. oversimplifies the geopolitics involved.

Foreign support doesn't justify an invasion.

And Russia chose to cross borders and attack sovereign cities.

External influence might exist.

But the responsibility for starting the war lies squarely with the invading power, not the victimised nation.

If i came into your home and decided to annex your living room because we spoke the same language im sure you would not be too happy, put it that way. 

[sahgwa]

It's not as simple as that at all.

Calling it a "civil war" ignores the clear evidence.

Russia invaded Ukraine with troops, missiles, and annexation attempts.

That's aggression, not an internal conflict.

Ukraine's government is internationally recognised, and has been since 1991.

A fact which you simply cannot ignore.

Blaming the U.S. oversimplifies the geopolitics involved.

Foreign support doesn't justify an invasion.

And Russia chose to cross borders and attack sovereign cities.

External influence might exist.

But the responsibility for starting the war lies squarely with the invading power, not the victimised nation.

If i came into your home and decided to annex your living room because we spoke the same langwage im sure you would not be too happy, put it that way. 

Why are you willingly ignoring what came before the invasion? 
This forum goes in circles it is really nauseating. 
That's like saying WW2 happened in a vacuum and totally ignoring WW1.

[andy06shake]

Why are you willingly ignoring what came before the invasion? 
This forum goes in circles it is really nauseating. 
That's like saying WW2 happened in a vacuum and totally ignoring WW1.

Like the Holodomor for instance? 

That came before the invasion sahgwa.

History is important mate. 

Same as sovereignty.

And i don't think I'm ignoring the facts.