Vladimir Putin 'spits in Trump's face'

[Kurokage]

That's true. I am not forgetting that.  But it's also funny that it has taken the combined force of NATO nations financially, and especially the US to stop them this far in.  No one is arguing their military is not shoddy and full of demoralised conscripts, but they have still taken a hell of a beating and keep on coming.  
Fact is, peace treatty should have been signed back in 2022 but Bojo miffed it up. On orders from the warmongering overlords . 
No one in a position of power in the West wants peace in Ukraine . No one.  It's all talk.

But as you've stated it's only financial support, add to that no troops or any really massive amounts of military equipment. It's Ukraine doing the fighting to evict the invaders.

I think everyone in a position of power wants peace, but just not on Putin's terms, obviously that could change in another 4 years if he mages to take another 20%, but by then Russian will penniless.

[Kurokage]

I'm gonna pull  a whataboutism cuz I don't recall the people in this thread diving so deep into Joseph Robinette Biden's family history of cognitive decline and his obvious sad performance with such, during his term, while he systematically helped take advantage of Ukraine and use it as a family money laundering base.  But now here we are and it is suddenly okay to talk about the topic.
I find that fascinating.

The thing with that is Trump was happy to call sleepy Joe out for his failing to secure peace and being senile, with Trump claiming he could fix it 24 hours.

Trump has been the president for a year and has been worse in my opinion with his flip floping on his support for Ukraine, whilst at the same time also sucking up to Putin. The only demands Trump has made so far, is to Ukraine.

[andy06shake]

I'm gonna pull  a whataboutism cuz I don't recall the people in this thread diving so deep into Joseph Robinette Biden's family history of cognitive decline and his obvious sad performance with such, during his term, while he systematically helped take advantage of Ukraine and use it as a family money laundering base.  But now here we are and it is suddenly okay to talk about the topic.
I find that fascinating.

Biden was not fit for purpose as POTUS sahgwa, that's clear and worth an admission. 

But neither, so it seems, is Trump.

And he's exhibiting all the same senile sighs Biden did towards the end.

Falling asleep at the wheel, getting words completely wrong, making up nonsense about ending wars that don't exist...

It's not looking good, and what do you imagine Putin and his analysts make of the situation?

The whataboutisms only go so far because at the end of the day, Trump is POTUS, and he is the one currently steering the ship.

[Oldcarpy2]

The so called Leader of the Free World is no longer anything of the sort.

His rambling incoherent rants and constant lies are simply a disgrace to the US.

He is now admiring and supporting Putin like a deranged puppet whilst throwing Ukraine under the bus and ranting against long term allies of the US and pretty much abandoning and insulting them.

It's totally deranged.

Now he wants War with Venezuela because...drugs.

Whilst effectively pardoning one of the most massive actual drug importers to the US.

Yet his MAGA base lap it all up.

Madness.  Madness...

[sahgwa]

Yes.  Biden was obviously not fit.

But this is now and it's Trump that is now going the same way.

dog and pony show
same bs different flavour

people will never unite against the 'elites' they will continue their ineffectual ego stroking left right bickering. 
just like ukraine will never see a peace until the anglo american elites have decided they are done playing with it and will say ok Putin you can keep your piece you won.

[andy06shake]

dog and pony show
same bs different flavour

people will never unite against the 'elites' they will continue their ineffectual ego stroking left right bickering. 
just like ukraine will never see a peace until the anglo american elites have decided they are done playing with it and will say ok Putin you can keep your piece you won.

The problem being appeasing tyrants like Putin wouldn't bring real peace for long. 

It would, however, signal that aggression pays.

And each concession would simply encourage further coercion.

History shows what happens when the good men fail to act....

[sahgwa]

The problem being appeasing tyrants like Putin wouldn't bring real peace for long. 

It would, however, signal that aggression pays.

And each concession would simply encourage further coercion.

History shows what happens when the good men fail to act....

I know what you are saying but this is a proxy war, simple as that. It should have been a slavic brethern thing on their own but the US particularly had too much dirty interest in the deal.  Especially after bolstering NATO influence in Georgia, Poland, Ukraine, Romania, etc etc.  
The old question still stands, what would the USA do if Russia had a huge military and economic alliance with Mexico, started training Mexican troops at the border to the USA and having wargames about invading the US or 'defending' Mexico from an American invasion? 
Same scenario, different side.

[Oldcarpy2]

dog and pony show
same bs different flavour

people will never unite against the 'elites' they will continue their ineffectual ego stroking left right bickering. 
just like ukraine will never see a peace until the anglo american elites have decided they are done playing with it and will say ok Putin you can keep your piece you won.

But, Trump wants them to concede peices that they haven't won.

How would you like it if your Country was invaded and you were told to just bend over and take it?

[andy06shake]

I know what you are saying but this is a proxy war, simple as that. It should have been a slavic brethern thing on their own but the US particularly had too much dirty interest in the deal.  Especially after bolstering NATO influence in Georgia, Poland, Ukraine, Romania, etc etc.  
The old question still stands, what would the USA do if Russia had a huge military and economic alliance with Mexico, started training Mexican troops at the border to the USA and having wargames about invading the US or 'defending' Mexico from an American invasion? 
Same scenario, different side.

They have all been proxy wars since WW2 sahgwa in one form or another, to think otherwise is naive. 

I think we both know the US would react strongly if a rival power formed a military bloc on its border.

But that parallel misses a key point, neighbours aren't forced into alliances, they choose them when they feel threatened.

Ukraine sought Western support after years of Russian pressure, not because NATO coerced it.

I'll give you a different scenario to contemplate.

Do you imagine the USA could possibly stand against a united Europe under a Russian Federation banner with China additionally in their corner?

Because that would be Putin's ultimate endgame imho.

[sahgwa]

They have all been proxy wars since WW2 sahgwa in one form or another, to think otherwise is naive. 

I think we both know the US would react strongly if a rival power formed a military bloc on its border.

But that parallel misses a key point, neighbours aren't forced into alliances, they choose them when they feel threatened.

Ukraine sought Western support after years of Russian pressure, not because NATO coerced it.

I'll give you a different scenario to contemplate.

Do you imagine the USA could possibly stand against a united Europe under a Russian Federation banner with China additionally in their corner?

Because that would be Putin's ultimate endgame imho.

No one is saying in this scenario that Russia would force an alliance on Mexico.
I am just saying, please look at it from Russia's side, and no I am not supporting Russia nor Ukraine.
Mexico willingly allies with Russia for business,and a bloc in the region, and stations 'advisors' and has troops there in a 'training' capacity, just like we do and I have visited in Romania, and Ukraine etc, and would these Russian troops be tolerated by the USA?
Perhaps the US would 'invade' English speaking areas that were being abused by the Mexicans . 
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If you think Putin really wants to conquer the whole of Europe you are mad, mate.