04-15-2025, 06:35 PM This post was last modified 04-15-2025, 06:56 PM by chr0naut. Edited 2 times in total.
(09-13-2024, 11:18 PM)Karl12 Wrote: Apparently lots of astronomers witness UFOs but back in the 1950's the CIA set up a 'disinformation campaign' which specifically targeted astronomers into believing the UFO subject was nonsense.
The disinformation campaign was hatched out of 'The Robertson Panel' and there are some relevant statements here about that CIA operation.
More info below and suppose if I were an astronomer (amateur or otherwise) then I'd be feeling pretty 'duped'.
Probably no surprise when it came out years later that astronomer Dr. Donald Howard Menzel who was chief debunker in all these shenanigans was in fact secretly working for the NSA and CIA.
Also, considering Paul Kimball's comments there's another video below in which Stanton Friedman describes a 2013 'debunking' article in 'Astronomy Magazine' so it looks like the disinfo campaign is still.active and the 'gospel' is still being 'disseminated'.
• Stanton also brings up the findings of the largest ever official, scientific UFO study which is still being curiously (and willfully) ignored by pseudoskeptics.
Phillip Klass was probably the most infamous pseudoskeptic of the lot so probably no coincidence that the author of that 2013 article (Phillip Plait) was awarded the 'Philip J. Klass Award' in the same year (nor that Plait is a fellow of the notorious debunking cult CSICOP co-founded by Klass).
A bit convoluted but apparently Dr. Menzel was 'mentor' to Klass who also used to boast about citing both the CIA/NSA's Bobby Ray Inman and the CIA/DIA's Daniel O. Graham as references (not bad for an 'electrical engineer').
If UFO sightings are relatively rare on a planet where nearly everyone can look up, it would be even more rare for an astronomer to see a UFO using instruments, and potentially recording the sighting.
Telescopes usually limit the view to a very small arc of the sky, while gathering more light, directionally, than the human eye alone would,
Astrometry 'scopes (split diopter) used for optical range finding or spectroscopy are usually even more limiting.
Hence, I doubt that hundreds of thousands of amateur and private people are involved in such a conspiracy theory. To the contrary, I'm sure many astronomers would truly love to see a UFO and get some sort of measurement or recording that gives evidence to it.
04-16-2025, 05:35 AM This post was last modified 04-16-2025, 05:43 AM by Sirius. Edited 2 times in total.
(04-15-2025, 06:35 PM)chr0naut Wrote: If UFO sightings are relatively rare on a planet where nearly everyone can look up, it would be even more rare for an astronomer to see a UFO using instruments, and potentially recording the sighting.
Telescopes usually limit the view to a very small arc of the sky, while gathering more light, directionally, than the human eye alone would,
Astrometry 'scopes (split diopter) used for optical range finding or spectroscopy are usually even more limiting.
Hence, I doubt that hundreds of thousands of amateur and private people are involved in such a conspiracy theory. To the contrary, I'm sure many astronomers would truly love to see a UFO and get some sort of measurement or recording that gives evidence to it.
The sightings are not rare by a long shot, the disinfo campaign was very successful. Pilots lose their jobs if they report a UFO, you get labeled as crazy and so on. What happens if it is just terrorist or military, no one reports anything that looks strange. It is a problem.
Add to the mix that sticking plastic bags on a drone or a balloon is super effective at camouflage. The same with lights and sound, very easy to trick people. Cheap methods that works wonders. Have seen UFO's reported as junk and junk reported as UFO's.
Activity comes in waves and there are hotspots. Hotspot areas are well documented, just do a family trip for a week and you will see some stuff. Whatever folklore exists in your community, look into it. You might be surprised what you find.
Of course if you just read what others are saying and react to that without going out there yourself you will never know the truth.
edit: no bearing on the person i'm replaying to, the sceptics these days are the crazy ones, debunking things without even knowing what they are debunking and refusing to accept that unexplainable events happen. It's silly, rather than accepting "yes, this shit is whacked" and doing the researcher further on that, things are dismissed and whatever hold the status quo is claimed as the answer/debunking.
I call not love in human frame,
But chrome, and fire, and roaring flame.
She came in smoke and metal breath,
A streak of lust, a dance with death.
04-17-2025, 01:19 AM This post was last modified 04-17-2025, 01:47 AM by chr0naut. Edited 7 times in total.
(04-16-2025, 05:35 AM)Sirius Wrote: The sightings are not rare by a long shot,
Based upon what evidence?
Nearly all the 'evidence' can be more simply explained otherwise.
Very few sightings have been genuinely unidentified. And astronomers are the very pragmatists who would look for very valid reasons to explain stuff that they might see.
Quote:... Pilots lose their jobs if they report a UFO
No, they don't.
Please furnish a single verifiable account of a pilot who has lost his job because he saw a UFO.
Think about it rationally, if there is a problem of collision, or other issues like crashes due to instrument failures, then pilots have a good reason to report, and authorities and airline companies have good reason to take it seriously and try and prevent such safety issues.
And what motivation could warrant authorities and aircraft companies, loosing part of their livelihood, just over an undefined sighting of something?
It's not like its earth shattering that something weird happened somewhere. People see unexplained stuff all the time and ultimately it doesn't mean anything and has no further consequence.
Quote:, you get labeled as crazy and so on. What happens if it is just terrorist or military, no one reports anything that looks strange. It is a problem.
All the more reason for the authorities to take UFO sightings seriously.
Quote:Add to the mix that sticking plastic bags on a drone or a balloon is super effective at camouflage. The same with lights and sound, very easy to trick people. Cheap methods that works wonders. Have seen UFO's reported as junk and junk reported as UFO's.
Yes, people can deceive, and be deceived. If a sighting can be explained that way, it is rational to assume that it is a likely explanation. It requires a cynical appraisal to eliminate the possibility that someone is 'putting one over' on you.
Quote:Activity comes in waves and there are hotspots. Hotspot areas are well documented, just do a family trip for a week and you will see some stuff. Whatever folklore exists in your community, look into it. You might be surprised what you find.
All the more suspicious.
Quote:Of course if you just read what others are saying and react to that without going out there yourself you will never know the truth.
edit: no bearing on the person i'm replaying to, the sceptics these days are the crazy ones, debunking things without even knowing what they are debunking and refusing to accept that unexplainable events happen. It's silly, rather than accepting "yes, this shit is whacked" and doing the researcher further on that, things are dismissed and whatever hold the status quo is claimed as the answer/debunking.
Since I was quite young I have been interested in flying (I was an air cadet at high school and had a few hundred hours piloting light planes but never got my license), rocketry (I built and launched rockets and participated in competitions) and have studied Astronomy and Physics at university and co-founded an astronomy club in Western Sydney. So I have a lot of experience with astronomy, but sadly only one sighting of a UFO in my life, and it was while I was bushwalking and had no camera and no-one else to verify. Nor was I able to gather any evidence, either..
But nothing in my experience supports that particular theory that astronomers (professional, academic or amateur) are somehow conspiring to keep sightings from the public.
(04-17-2025, 01:19 AM)chr0naut Wrote: Based upon what evidence?
Nearly all the 'evidence' can be more simply explained otherwise.
Very few sightings have been genuinely unidentified. And astronomers are the very pragmatists who would look for very valid reasons to explain stuff that they might see.
No, they don't.
Please furnish a single verifiable account of a pilot who has lost his job because he saw a UFO.
Think about it rationally, if there is a problem of collision, or other issues like crashes due to instrument failures, then pilots have a good reason to report, and authorities and airline companies have good reason to take it seriously and try and prevent such safety issues.
And what motivation could warrant authorities and aircraft companies, loosing part of their livelihood, just over an undefined sighting of something?
It's not like its earth shattering that something weird happened somewhere. People see unexplained stuff all the time and ultimately it doesn't mean anything and has no further consequence.
All the more reason for the authorities to take UFO sightings seriously.
Yes, people can deceive, and be deceived. If a sighting can be explained that way, it is rational to assume that it is a likely explanation. It requires a cynical appraisal to eliminate the possibility that someone is 'putting one over' on you.
All the more suspicious.
Since I was quite young I have been interested in flying (I was an air cadet at high school and had a few hundred hours piloting light planes but never got my license), rocketry (I built and launched rockets and participated in competitions) and have studied Astronomy and Physics at university and co-founded an astronomy club in Western Sydney. So I have a lot of experience with astronomy, but sadly only one sighting of a UFO in my life, and it was while I was bushwalking and had no camera and no-one else to verify. Nor was I able to gather any evidence, either..
But nothing in my experience supports that particular theory that astronomers (professional, academic or amateur) are somehow conspiring to keep sightings from the public.
Based on what? My own eyeballs, lived experiences and talking with people.
I call not love in human frame,
But chrome, and fire, and roaring flame.
She came in smoke and metal breath,
A streak of lust, a dance with death.
(09-13-2024, 11:18 PM)Karl12 Wrote: Good one Karl. So why is it that NO UFO researcher aka "expert" ever uses "stacking software" that Astrophotographers use for everything up in space? In fact NO one ever speaks to this including George Knapp. I brought this up as a paying member on Richard Dolan's web site and I was attacked by his website MOD. They then messed with my Posts so I quit as it was worthless.
Apparently lots of astronomers witness UFOs but back in the 1950's the CIA set up a 'disinformation campaign' which specifically targeted astronomers into believing the UFO subject was nonsense.
The disinformation campaign was hatched out of 'The Robertson Panel' and there are some relevant statements here about that CIA operation.
More info below and suppose if I were an astronomer (amateur or otherwise) then I'd be feeling pretty 'duped'.
Probably no surprise when it came out years later that astronomer Dr. Donald Howard Menzel who was chief debunker in all these shenanigans was in fact secretly working for the NSA and CIA.
Also, considering Paul Kimball's comments there's another video below in which Stanton Friedman describes a 2013 'debunking' article in 'Astronomy Magazine' so it looks like the disinfo campaign is still.active and the 'gospel' is still being 'disseminated'.
• Stanton also brings up the findings of the largest ever official, scientific UFO study which is still being curiously (and willfully) ignored by pseudoskeptics.
Phillip Klass was probably the most infamous pseudoskeptic of the lot so probably no coincidence that the author of that 2013 article (Phillip Plait) was awarded the 'Philip J. Klass Award' in the same year (nor that Plait is a fellow of the notorious debunking cult CSICOP co-founded by Klass).
A bit convoluted but apparently Dr. Menzel was 'mentor' to Klass who also used to boast about citing both the CIA/NSA's Bobby Ray Inman and the CIA/DIA's Daniel O. Graham as references (not bad for an 'electrical engineer').
Good one Karl. So why is it that NO UFO researcher aka "expert" ever uses "stacking software" to clarify UFO images? Same sifware that Astrophotographers use for everything up in space? In fact NO one ever speaks to this including George Knapp. I brought this up as a paying member on Richard Dolan's web site and I was subsequently attacked by his website MOD. They then messed with my Posts so I quit as it was worthless.
Plus, ole Richard would never engage with me although his site says he will if you PM him.
5 hours ago This post was last modified 5 hours ago by UltraBudgie. Edited 1 time in total.
(6 hours ago)Waterglass Wrote: Good one Karl. So why is it that NO UFO researcher aka "expert" ever uses "stacking software" to clarify UFO images? Same sifware that Astrophotographers use for everything up in space? In fact NO one ever speaks to this including George Knapp. I brought this up as a paying member on Richard Dolan's web site and I was subsequently attacked by his website MOD. They then messed with my Posts so I quit as it was worthless.
Plus, ole Richard would never engage with me although his site says he will if you PM him.
This is a good point, the technology for reconstruction from low-res video or multiple images has become much better. There's great opportunity to go back over old ufo videos and composite/reconstruct hi-res images from them.
Check out this example, of a deliberately blocky video:
5 hours ago This post was last modified 5 hours ago by Waterglass. Edited 1 time in total.
Thanks and yes you are CORRECT. The US FBI also uses that type of software to clarify images taken by security cameras that are blurry, grainy or fuzzy.
Same applies to UFO's. So what is everyone hiding? Especially those so called experts? The SHADOW had a Q & A with George Knapp. Nothing has ever been posted. IMO either George has been threatened or is now on the payroll.
I read they are now threatening Dr. Garry Nolan, Stanford University
UFO expert warned by government after claims of aliens living among us and related whistleblower death
