The Great Flood — Myth, Memory, or Something In Between?

[3rdrockfrmsun]

This thread spun off from my Bible Translations post, which somehow turned into sixteen pages of flood debates (linking it HERE for anyone who wants to catch up).
That conversation got heated, sure — but it also showed how deep and layered the topic really is. So rather than keep hijacking that one, here’s a fresh thread dedicated entirely to The Great Flood.

Round two begins below:

It only made sense to give this debate its own home.

So here it is — no sidetracks, no apologies. Let’s talk about the Flood.

Was it a literal event that nearly wiped out humanity — a real, remembered catastrophe that echoed through every ancient civilization? Or was it a regional disaster retold by people whose entire “world” stretched only as far as they could walk before the waters rose?

We’ve got geological evidence of massive floods in Mesopotamia around 7,000–5,000 years ago. Nearly every culture — Sumerian, Hebrew, Indian, Chinese, even Aboriginal Australian — has a flood story that follows the same pattern: judgment, destruction, mercy, and renewal. Coincidence? Or a shared memory of something the ancient world never forgot?

Of course, others point to continuous civilizations like Egypt and China and say that disproves a global flood. Fair. But even modern science is rethinking how fast adaptation and evolution can occur — some studies say up to four times fasterthan we thought. That changes the timeline for a lot of assumptions about population recovery and diversity.

And then there’s the spiritual angle: maybe the flood wasn’t just water, but a story meant to explain why humanity keeps collapsing and rebuilding — a cycle of destruction and grace.
Either way, the flood story refuses to die. So let’s have at it — evidence, theology, myth, and everything in between.

[Maxmars]

I always wondered about ancient man.... coping with even less extreme events than floods, capturing the tales of massive displacement, tragic surprises.  The sudden loss of surrounding communities, friends, even family...

How devastating loss... and repeated tales echoing the "Did you hear about what happened to....?" flood, earthquakes, wildfire, disease, assaults by hordes of insects, the sudden disappearance of food....

It must have been natural to gather them up and retell them as a single nightmare "evil" that appears the hunt them for sport wherever they go...

But the tales of "flood" seem the most to 'echo' repeatedly... all over the planet.

Great thread....

[FlyersFan]

We know for a fact that the Noah story, as described by the bible, is not literal truth.
It is not the inerrant Word of God.   It's allegory.
God did not come down and save 8 people floating on a boat full of the worlds animals for a year.
Speculate about the origin of the story all you want ... but just don't say it's literal truth.
Cuz' it's not.
There was a thread at ATS on this ... something like 70 pages.

[Ravenwatcher]

Inpossible the flood would have killed every living human and animal left on land think of all the bloated corpses floatfing and rotting not to mention the sea animals and river animals dying because of salanity changes .

[ArMaP]

Looking at the news for the last 12 months, I think it could be just a coincidence.

Floods are relatively common and people in ancient times didn't know how far the world reached and didn't have the means of communicating with people from other places, so a big flood could look like it had covered all of their known world while being relatively localised.

[chr0naut]

Inpossible the flood would have killed every living human and animal left on land think of all the bloated corpses floatfing and rotting not to mention the sea animals and river animals dying because of salanity changes .

Every single living thing already dies leaving corpses in the environment. The bacteria and carrion eaters in the water would eventually deal with the problem.

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

This thread spun off from my Bible Translations post, which somehow turned into sixteen pages of flood debates (linking it HERE for anyone who wants to catch up).
That conversation got heated, sure — but it also showed how deep and layered the topic really is. So rather than keep hijacking that one, here’s a fresh thread dedicated entirely to The Great Flood.

Round two begins below:

It only made sense to give this debate its own home.

So here it is — no sidetracks, no apologies. Let’s talk about the Flood.

Was it a literal event that nearly wiped out humanity — a real, remembered catastrophe that echoed through every ancient civilization? Or was it a regional disaster retold by people whose entire “world” stretched only as far as they could walk before the waters rose?

We’ve got geological evidence of massive floods in Mesopotamia around 7,000–5,000 years ago. Nearly every culture — Sumerian, Hebrew, Indian, Chinese, even Aboriginal Australian — has a flood story that follows the same pattern: judgment, destruction, mercy, and renewal. Coincidence? Or a shared memory of something the ancient world never forgot?

Of course, others point to continuous civilizations like Egypt and China and say that disproves a global flood. Fair. But even modern science is rethinking how fast adaptation and evolution can occur — some studies say up to four times fasterthan we thought. That changes the timeline for a lot of assumptions about population recovery and diversity.

And then there’s the spiritual angle: maybe the flood wasn’t just water, but a story meant to explain why humanity keeps collapsing and rebuilding — a cycle of destruction and grace.
Either way, the flood story refuses to die. So let’s have at it — evidence, theology, myth, and everything in between.

I think all flood myth have a very precise source in Sumeria. If you go by earliest physical evidence of each myth. 

Atra-Hasis - 1600-1900 BCE
Nippur Deluge Tablet - 1600-1900 BCE
Epic of Ziusudra - 1600-1900 BCE
Eridu Genesis - 1600-1900 BCE
Epic of Gilgamesh - 1600-1900 BCE

And while some "oral versions" are said to go back to like 3500 BCE, the written tablet versions are all dated to the same window. In the same area of the world.

And then the later versions.

Vendidad Winter - 700-1000 BCE (Persian)
Manu Story - 700-1000 BCE (Hindu)
Flood of Deucalion 700-800 BCE (Greek)
Genesis Flood - 500-1400 BCE (Hebrew)

The Persian one is actually a cataclysmic winter and the Vara (arc) is underground. The written version came 1000 years after the widely shared oral version in 200 CE. 

Some speculate the Genesis version goes back to 1400 BCE in oral tradition without supporting evidence earlier than the post exilic period.  Its early form was probably a retelling of any of the Sumerian ones. 

And even later versions...

Ymir Blood Flood - 1000-1300 CE (Norse)

The Norse are hard to get down. The oldest version could still be christianized. They only started largely writing their stories after The Bible showed up.

Oldest one is "Odin killed the last giant and created thr oceans from his blood."  

Much much later Flood Myths

The Story of Nuʻu - 1800 (Hawaiian)

"A man who built an ark to survive a great flood and saved his family and all living things." 

He landed ln Maunu Kea instead on Mt. Ararat! 

The claim is it was an Oral Tradition story that existed "before" missionaries showed up, but like the Norse, you cant really know what the oral story was. 

This also applies to the: Inca, Aztec, Toltec, Mayan, Navajo, Hopi, Cherokee, Iroquois, Seminole... pretty much everyone except The Inuit.

But they are all learned about through missionaries. They all existed as "oral tradition" or some retconned interpretation taking linguistic liberties.

It's the magnifying glass of Jesus being carried. Everything must line up.

The original flood?

You make the cradle of civilization the river valley in an increasingly drying desert you get period epic floods. Every 100 to 500 years. They think the inspiration Flood happen sometime around either 3200, 2900, 2600, or 2100 BCE. 

They are noteworthy events to write and talk endlessly about.

Its like when a Tunguska-sized meteor explodes above a Dead Sea trade city in the Jordan River Delta known for its prostitutes.

Those happen once every 1000 years, so people in 1600 BCE of so can be forgiven for seeing god raining fire and instant destruction from the sky.

Because thats what airbursts do. Universe has pretty precise aim without trying sometimes.

[Ravenwatcher]

Every single living thing already dies leaving corpses in the environment. The bacteria and carrion eaters in the water would eventually deal with the problem.

Not all at once the overload would be just horrific and Nope carrion eaters with no place to roost would be dead also even the bacteria woould be dead or atleast most because of water chemistry changes .

[schuyler]

Yes, there was a "flood." It wasn't "biblical" and there was no Ark. But when the ice age collapsed the sea level rose several hundred feet. This flooded seacoast civilizations all over the world hence the pervasiveness of the flood myths. Look at the record. The Younger Dryas is the likely culprit. A comet strike on the ice cap could have caused rapid flooding. No need for any supernatural explanation.

[covent]

There is evidence in the geological record of great floods or deluges (megafloods) going back 450,000 years.

Caused by large volume of water being released from behind some kind of store

• a lake trapped behind a dam of some kind, 
  
• water released from a glacier when a volcano erupts underneath it 
  
• when the sea floods into an area that used to be dry land. 
  

Natural dams can be formed when a large landslide or a glacier blocks a river. And the larger the landslide or glacier, the more water that's stored and then released from behind it. 

Very gradual changes in sea level can also cause megafloods from what were once seas flooding huge areas of previously dry land. Both of these cases can produce truly huge megafloods.

This type of megaflood occurred 450,00 years ago in the Dover Straits.

Previously, a dry river valley, the rise of surrounding sea levels caused an estimated 1 million cubic metres of water per second pouring into the Dover Straits from the North Sea. 

At that time, Doggerland was buried under icesheet and only flooded @ North Sea Storegga Slide, plates shift, around 8,000yrs ago.

I think the real question here is "Is there anywhere on the planet where flood myths or stories and mythical  explanations for large deluges of water, do  not exist?"

Some of these 'myths' include fantastical stories of how great floods changed the landscape, not only destroyed life but changed flora and fauna. 

Looking at modern era flooding or any geological shifts, everything seems so tame in comparison to what the rocks can tell us about the ancient past. I think the planet was very young, going through a growth spurt maybe and has since mellowed out a bit.