Question about the Bible

[pianopraze]

Some don’t like us, our beliefs, we are a threat, the bible, Jesus is a threat, not sure even why

Christians have no promise of peace or prosperity on Earth, that promise is for heaven, forgive now before Jesus returns, before His judgement has to be reconciled

Christians are the ultimate subversives to this world’s system.

Jesus sums it here:
““Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6‬:‭19‬-‭21‬ ‭NIV

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

Okay, let's try this.

God is an Anunaki? Gotta explain first?

The pantheon became Yahweh sometime between  1210 and 800 BCE.

Like In 1300 Jerusalem was called Urusalim and was a vassal state of The New Kingdom of Egypt.

Jerusalem Timeline (Archeology):

Strict Pantheon:

Canaanite - Until 1500 BCE
Egyptian - 1500 to 1200 BCE

Monolarty:

Canaanite + Jebusites - 1200 - 1000

It was at this point Ba'al (likely based on Enlil) became the one true god above the other gods. Only they changed its named to El Elyon. The god above gods. Ba'al = El Elyon = Yahweh around this time.

Montheism: 1000-700

A collection of family clans come together under their changing narrative and language, a syntactic Canaanite alphabet that diverged along with Phoenician. 

The Kingdom of David, which was real, unfortunately isn't anything too spectacular.

Between the Egyptian, Cannanite and Assyrian archeological layers there is a "slum layer." The United Kingdom of Israel was kinda like  Chieftains in makeshift huts. Solomon's Temple looked nothing like The Freemason's depict.

Return to Sumerian Polytheism: 701 - 539

Assyrian control 701 - 586
Babylonian control  586 - 539

Back To Monotheism  536 onward.

You can keep going, but the post exilic period is the important transition period. It was at this point they backtracked their history in The 2nd Temple, omitted the 300 years Egypt controlled Jerusalem, and refined a character named Moses.  Hosea was actually written BEFORE Genesis. In Hosea he's still referred to as "The Prophet who delivered Israel from Egypt".  But not named until the 4th or 5th century BCE. 

As Hosea was very important to the 2nd temple, they retconned their narrative surrounding it. They took the vague story about a prophet and deliverance from Egypt and turned it into an Exodus. (That archeologically never happened) 

As far as God vs Gods. The Canaanite pantheon was based on Sumeria. Like Ba'al was based on Enlil, but Enlil also influenced Set through Sumerian/Egyptian cultural exchange.

The Pentateuch is actually NEWER than some of the major and minor prophets. Nowhere near the first text written actually. Amos, Hosea, Micah, Zephaniah, Habakkuk, Isaiah Amos, Hosea, Micah, Zephaniah, Habakkuk, Isaiah 1-39, and Nahum all predate it.

You have to go Israel Finklestein and rewrite history to accommodate archeology instead of, "Having a trowel in one hand, and Bible in the other" to make the Bible line up with history.

As far as Elohim being the plurality of gods.

The Anunaki were creators.
The Elohim was the creator.

The latter is based on the former, and the singularization of Elohim was deliberate. It's like returning Anunaki to just Anu, and all his children (like Enlil, Enki, and Ishtar) are all a manifestations of Anu, now called Yahweh.

That's how the Hebrew rid itself of the pantheon. 

Is the Trinity still a pantheon?

That is probably more Anu/Anunaki influence.

It's like if Anu had a single Son named Enki who was the trinitarian manifestation of Anu, Enki, and the spirit of divinity.

[UltraBudgie]

As far as Elohim being the plurality of gods.

The Anunaki were creators.
The Elohim was the creator.

The latter is based on the former, and the singularization of Elohim was deliberate. It's like returning Anunaki to just Anu, and all his children (like Enlil, Enki, and Ishtar) are all a manifestations of Anu, now called Yahweh.

That's how the Hebrew rid itself of the pantheon. 

Nice post.  Without getting into the whole Anunnaki thing, where you are certainly encouraging lagomorphic spelunking, the plural/singular use of elohim does have the earmarks of post-hoc justification of an incomplete search+replace job. For example,

Psalm 82:1 (KJV) "[[A Psalm of Asaph.]] God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods."

Where the same word (elohim) is used for both "God" and "the Gods":

אֱלֹהִים נִצָּב בַּעֲדַת־אֵל בְּקֶרֶב אֱלֹהִים

[argentus]

Your looking at it wrong, God does not require our (believers) worship.
Believers need to worship God 
Your reasoning is backwards

As for those dozen severe and controlling documents, what severe and controlling documents are you reading? 
So I understand your view

I don't think you understand my view.  Deuteronomy 10:12-13:  "And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul."

Exodus 34:14:   "for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." 

Deuteronomy 12:31 adds that those who follow the Lord must worship according to His ways, not the ways of those who worship other gods: "You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way."   If this is not a mandate to WORSHIP God(s) then I fail to see any other interpretation.  

That's just a sampling of the plethora of Biblical quotes that I could bring to bear.   

The "severe and controlling documents", well, I see the Quran as significantly more controlling and definitely more severe than the Holy Bible.   I read them both regularly.   I also read Sumerian and Akkadian translated text.   There is truth in there somewhere.   ALL these texts were written by people.  Some say they were divinely inspired.   

Now, perhaps, you may say that you understand me.   You don't have the grace to tell me that I am looking at things wrong.  I doubt that your level of research approaches mine.   You only have the right to say you disagree.  Be well.   I hope we both find the answers we seek.

[Creaky]

I don't think you understand my view.  Deuteronomy 10:12-13:  "And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul."

Exodus 34:14:   "for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." 

Deuteronomy 12:31 adds that those who follow the Lord must worship according to His ways, not the ways of those who worship other gods: "You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way."   If this is not a mandate to WORSHIP God(s) then I fail to see any other interpretation.  

That's just a sampling of the plethora of Biblical quotes that I could bring to bear.   

The "severe and controlling documents", well, I see the Quran as significantly more controlling and definitely more severe than the Holy Bible.   I read them both regularly.   I also read Sumerian and Akkadian translated text.   There is truth in there somewhere.   ALL these texts were written by people.  Some say they were divinely inspired.   

Now, perhaps, you may say that you understand me.   You don't have the grace to tell me that I am looking at things wrong.  I doubt that your level of research approaches mine.   You only have the right to say you disagree.  Be well.   I hope we both find the answers we seek.

Well as for opinions, I only have mine and I can only offer that, valid or overstretching my ability
Irrespective, the more information I gather the more I can choose what suits my understanding

As for worship, God doesn’t need it, we need it
The ancient and near east culture had no issues with child sacrifice, God wanted to keep His people away from such practices (Abraham and Isaac), also, many foreign cultures were evil, those tribes influenced the Jewish religion mostly to its detriment. If you read the bible in the Old Testament, it recounts the many issues that Israel faced with weak, mislead rulers and the trouble it caused.
Christianity teaches if we focus (worship) on Jesus, less likely to lose our way, as I said, it’s my understanding and easily dismissed 
At a guess, maybe at most, 10% of the world’s population are believers today, does God require worship? 
Jewish population pre Christ, probably less that 1% at a guess, does that sound like God needs worship. 


As for the quaran/summerian/Akkadian text, not my field so can’t speculate.
Biblically, I don’t see controlling in Christianity, in fact I see quite the opposite
Surprised you can say that Christs or the gospel, epistle writers teachings are severe or controlling in any way

[Creaky]

Nice post.  Without getting into the whole Anunnaki thing, where you are certainly encouraging lagomorphic spelunking, the plural/singular use of elohim does have the earmarks of post-hoc justification of an incomplete search+replace job. For example,

Psalm 82:1 (KJV) "[[A Psalm of Asaph.]] God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods."

Where the same word (elohim) is used for both "God" and "the Gods":

אֱלֹהִים נִצָּב בַּעֲדַת־אֵל בְּקֶרֶב אֱלֹהִים

1 Corinthians 8:5-6
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), / yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

Can’t take 1 statement as complete biblical context and ignore other aspects of scripture, go read the whole of Psalm 82 and see the end of the “gods” clearly written 
Read Psalm 82: 1-8 not just Psalm 82:1
“However, you will die like humans and fall like any other ruler.”

[IdeomotorPrisoner]

Nice post.  Without getting into the whole Anunnaki thing, where you are certainly encouraging lagomorphic spelunking, the plural/singular use of elohim does have the earmarks of post-hoc justification of an incomplete search+replace job. For example,

Psalm 82:1 (KJV) "[[A Psalm of Asaph.]] God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods."

Where the same word (elohim) is used for both "God" and "the Gods":

אֱלֹהִים נִצָּב בַּעֲדַת־אֵל בְּקֶרֶב אֱלֹהִים

The true influence of Abrahamic religion and how it all ended up where it did is always perplexis lepus foraminis. 

Just think of what was needed to end up in Utah.

[midicon]

Naturally good people are Empathic. Learned and experienced people grow Empathy, but many don't have the ability and just don't care about others habitually.

Books didn't teach me that. Life experience did, because knowing right from wrong for many is retrospective and takes time. Empathy is a leader of a good self and a person's conscience regarding others needs.

And regarding books...many people may use "self help books" or a bible, using them for glancing at or to keep on a shelf shining a security from lessons learned or maybe they are there to help others, but do they NEED them? Maybe they are for describing the things that could help us in a more definative way in a very confusing world that often comes with a whole heap of disconfuddlmentism.

I have been quite naive and guilty of holding two contrasting viewpoints Nerb.

On the one hand I fondly imagined that for the most part we humans are naturally empathetic and care yet at the same time I think I live in an open air asylum. I should think before I speak.

In reality I only have to look around me at the endless horrors we perpetuate. 

Oh well, at least I have learned something about myself.

Thanks for that reply!

[UltraBudgie]

1 Corinthians 8:5-6
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), / yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

Can’t take 1 statement as complete biblical context and ignore other aspects of scripture, go read the whole of Psalm 82 and see the end of the “gods” clearly written 
Read Psalm 82: 1-8 not just Psalm 82:1
“However, you will die like humans and fall like any other ruler.”

You are certainly correct and please do not think that because we are examining the historic origins and textual formation of Genesis (as we started at) that I am pointing to that as any indication of the truth of God or the message of scripture. In my mind that would be sort of like drawing conclusions about the divine nature of biological creation by limiting one's self to studying evolutionary chemistry, and confusing extrapolations of that with truth. It does not necessarily follow, such secular study does not control in that way. In the hands of God however, all scripture may act as a tool, regardless of what we may conclude of its origin or translation, sharper than the two-edged sword of logic, opinion, and scholarly study, effective for instruction and correction, with divine efficacy beyond our worldly quibbling...

That said, it is interesting that you cherry-picked the somewhat obscure Berean translation of 1Cor 8:5, as that is the translation loaded to more fully make the point you seem to want to emphasize, moreso even than the NIV (which usually wins such awards). In the text:

1 Cor 8:5 "καὶ γὰρ εἴπερ εἰσὶν λεγόμενοι θεοὶ εἴτε ἐν οὐρανῷ εἴτε ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ὥσπερ εἰσὶν θεοὶ πολλοὶ καὶ κύριοι πολλοί"

The word translated as "so-called" does not carry the negative connotation of "falsely called", as implied. It's the same word as used in Ephesians 2:11. And there is no redundant "so-called" in the original, merely "ὥσπερ εἰσὶν θεοὶ πολλοὶ καὶ κύριοι πολλοί" -- "as there are many gods and many lords". So perhaps consider that particular verse translated as:

1 Cor 8:5 "For even though there are those who are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many gods and many lords)"

[Redchad]

https://youtu.be/F7ngjtT43-4?si=MWsVJJ23BCeU-Of6[Video: https://youtu.be/F7ngjtT43-4?si=MWsVJJ23BCeU-Of6]

your comment is so ignorant it’s sad
Guessing you Missed the whole Billy Carson implosion, his argument is just like yours
Wes Huff made Billy look very below average intellectually in front of the whole world
missed that did you?


I don’t subscribe to conspiracy theorists! I study facts and historical evidence for example the flood story. Only the real hero of the flood is Utnapishtim not Noah and this flood came a thousand years before Judaism and included doves and ravens.