Plane collision with Blackhawk helicopter Washington DC - Political Debate

[quintessentone]

Black Hawk pilot failed to heed flight instructor in moments before plane collision over DC: report

When air traffic controllers informed the Black Hawk that there was an airliner nearby, Lobach and Eaves acknowledged the message and requested to fly by "visual separation," a common practice that allows aircraft to avoid collisions based on their own observations rather than following instructions from air traffic control.

...

"The Black Hawk was 15 seconds away from crossing paths with the jet. Warrant Officer Eaves then turned his attention to Captain Lobach. He told her he believed that air traffic control wanted them to turn left, toward the east river bank," the Times wrote.

"Turning left would have opened up more space between the helicopter and Flight 5342, which was heading for Runway 33 at an altitude of roughly 300 feet. She did not turn left," the report said.

Rest in peace...

Yes RIP.

I understood there was no time to react.

[SomeStupidName]

As I understand it she was told to go left and failed to do so. So no she did have time to react also she was at the wrong altitude which is why she was instructed to make the course correction.

[Zaphod58]

As I understand it she was told to go left and failed to do so. So no she did have time to react also she was at the wrong altitude which is why she was instructed to make the course correction.

No she wasn't. Don't go by the New York Times BS piece. The actual NTSB release of the CSMU transcript shows that the instructor said "I BELIEVE that air traffic control wants us to turn left" but he never told her to turn left.

[KrustyKrab]

No she wasn't. Don't go by the New York Times BS piece. The actual NTSB release of the CSMU transcript shows that the instructor said "I BELIEVE that air traffic control wants us to turn left" but he never told her to turn left.

I read there were two ATC request for altitude changes that went ignore. Do you know anything about that?

[SomeStupidName]

No she wasn't. Don't go by the New York Times BS piece. The actual NTSB release of the CSMU transcript shows that the instructor said "I BELIEVE that air traffic control wants us to turn left" but he never told her to turn left.

So then she should have turned left.... 
To "believe" fundamentally means to accept something as true or real, often without absolute proof or certainty. It can involve trusting in the truth of a statement, having faith in something, or holding an opinion as probable.

[Zaphod58]

So then she should have turned left.... 
To "believe" fundamentally means to accept something as true or real, often without absolute proof or certainty. It can involve trusting in the truth of a statement, having faith in something, or holding an opinion as probable.

No you don’t. You don’t do things while flying because you believe that’s what they want done. You ask for clarification and get explicit instructions on what ATC wants you to do. Doing what you think ATC wants you to do without knowing what they want causes complete chaos and gets licenses pulled, or worse.

[Zaphod58]

I read there were two ATC request for altitude changes that went ignore. Do you know anything about that?

All of the altitude discussions were on the helicopter between crew. One pilot noted their altimeter read 400 feet, the other 300 feet. Then as they crossed the bridge the IP noted they were at 300 feet, and needed to descend. The other pilot said they’d descend to 200 feet.

[SomeStupidName]

No you don’t. You don’t do things while flying because you believe that’s what they want done. You ask for clarification and get explicit instructions on what ATC wants you to do. Doing what you think ATC wants you to do without knowing what they want causes complete chaos and gets licenses pulled, or worse.

Have they released the audio yet? I see your opening point that the staffing at ATC was down to one person so that adds to the situation but I still think she had time to turn left, I think she heard the co pilots words and decided that she did not believe that was the correct course of action.

[Zaphod58]

Have they released the audio yet? I see your opening point that the staffing at ATC was down to one person so that adds to the situation but I still think she had time to turn left, I think she heard the co pilots words and decided that she did not believe that was the correct course of action.

There is audio and transcript of the CSMU that has been released, as well as transcribed copies. The IP and crew chief we’re watching for traffic and helping keep them clear of other aircraft and obstacles. She didn’t turn left because there was no command to turn left. They were VFR for separation from the CRJ, but still under ATC command. The crew chief was on the wrong side of the aircraft to see the CRJ, and the IP misidentified another aircraft as the CRJ they were supposed to pass behind. When he said he believed the controller wanted them to turn left, it was somewhere around 13 seconds from impact, and they didn’t have the CRJ in sight to avoid them.

[SomeStupidName]

There is audio and transcript of the CSMU that has been released, as well as transcribed copies. The IP and crew chief we’re watching for traffic and helping keep them clear of other aircraft and obstacles. She didn’t turn left because there was no command to turn left. They were VFR for separation from the CRJ, but still under ATC command. The crew chief was on the wrong side of the aircraft to see the CRJ, and the IP misidentified another aircraft as the CRJ they were supposed to pass behind. When he said he believed the controller wanted them to turn left, it was somewhere around 13 seconds from impact, and they didn’t have the CRJ in sight to avoid them.

Sorry I don't mean to pester you about this and I believe you when you say the audio and transcripts are released and google even confirms that but it stops short at providing a link to them, do happen to have one? I used this as my search in google:
dc helicopter crash audio and transcript of the CSMU

I found some ATC snippets but mostly of them seeing the collision and normally I would just move on but find it kind of strange that i'm not getting actual links from google even the AI thing at the top states audio is available but fail to provide the link and on the other facts it's siting it's mostly using the article you said was no good and there is a pay wall so I can't read that either.

Edit:
I wish I had a screen captured my last searches AI results because they have now changed with the same search prompt, is there a coverup in progress?

"While the specific audio and transcript of the CSMU are not public, the investigation into the crash is ongoing, and details may be released in the future. Investigators are working to determine the exact cause of the collision, and the information gathered during the investigation may shed light on the communication between the Black Hawk pilot and air traffic control." (Search Labs | AI Overview)