Plane collides with Blackhawk helicopter Washington DC

[Zaphod58]

IMO:

It looks like the Blackhawk both swerved and ascended to hit the plane, after the pilot was warned of the approaching airline’s altitude.

ATC didn’t assume the pilot had malicious intent.

Because they didn’t. If they maneuvered it was because they saw the plane at the last second and tried to avoid it.

[MonkMode]

Because they didn’t. If they maneuvered it was because they saw the plane at the last second and tried to avoid it.

I disagree. Please review this video if you have not yet, in addition to the footage that was shared earlier in the thread of the head on collision.



I heard they collided at 1500 feet.

ATC tells PAT25 that the now destroyed civilian plane JIA5342 is at 1200 feet altitude approaching runway 33. This is around 1:30 to 1:40 on the YouTube video.

Then PAT25 alters it course and flies straight into JIA5342 about 1 minute later. It looks like PAT25 ascended and turned into the plane just as the plane turned toward the runway.

Do you want to blame ATC for giving a heads up to PAT25 into the exact path of JIA5342’s descent to the runway?

As PAT25 appears to hit JIA5342 from an angle underneath it, that further suggests to me that JIA5342 could not see PAT25, but PAT25 could see JIA5342.

[Zaphod58]

I disagree. Please review this video if you have not yet, in addition to the footage that was shared earlier in the thread of the head on collision.



I heard they collided at 1500 feet.

ATC tells PAT25 that the now destroyed civilian plane JIA5342 is at 1200 feet altitude approaching runway 33. This is around 1:30 to 1:40 on the YouTube video.

Then PAT25 alters it course and flies straight into JIA5342 about 1 minute later. It looks like PAT25 ascended and turned into the plane just as the plane turned toward the runway.

Do you want to blame ATC for giving a heads up to PAT25 into the exact path of JIA5342’s descent to the runway?

As PAT25 appears to hit JIA5342 from an angle underneath it, that further suggests to me that JIA5342 could not see PAT25, but PAT25 could see JIA5342.

You heard wrong.

PAT25 was at 300 feet. The PSA flight was on short final, and descending through 300 feet when they collided. It wasn’t a head on collision, it was a crossing collision. The PSA flight was almost 90 degrees to PAT25.

The PSA flight was initially cleared to land on 01, which would have had them pointing at PAT25 on approach, and kept them separated. Instead they were changed to runway 33, which required a right turn out of PAT25s direct vision (they were on night vision goggles which eliminates peripheral vision). The PSA then turned back to line up on 33, which turned their lights across the nose of PAT25, effectively turning them almost invisible until they were in front of PAT25. The crew of PAT25 would have recognized them at the last second and tried to avoid them, which would look like them turning into the PSA.

[putnam6]

FWIW this doesn't sound like a DEI hiring issue at all. Just a tragic mistake in an incredibly busy air corridor 

It all depends on the number of pilots admitted, passed through training, and thier assignments. Additionally, if the standards were changed which doesn't sound like the case here, she would become an aviation officer in 2019







BNO News Live

@BNODesk
·
23m
The second pilot of the Black Hawk helicopter involved in the D.C. mid-air collision has been identified as Rebecca Lobach, 28. Rebecca also served as a military social aide at the White House, helping the president host events and ceremonies.
 

• Army Black Hawk pilot killed in mid-air collision remembered as a ‘volunteer patriot’
  

Army Capt. Rebecca Lobach, 28, was in the top 20% of all ROTC cadets nationwide in her class and then served as an aviation officer from 2019 to 2025. She was assigned to the 12th Aviation Battalion.
 “She was passionate about leadership, passionate about mentorship, and passionate about being a master of her skill craft,” Freas told Task & Purpose on Saturday. “Everything she did, she put 100% of her heart and effort into. No task was too big or too little for her to handle for her soldiers and the people that she mentored and loved.”
On Wednesday, Lobach, 28, was killed when a Black Hawk helicopter she was aboard and American Airlines Flight 5342 collided near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, located just outside of Washington. D.C. A total of 67 people died in the incident, including all the passengers and crew aboard the airliner and two other soldiers on the helicopter: Chief Warrant Officer 2 Andrew Loyd Eaves, 39; and Staff Sgt. Ryan Austin O’Hara, 28.

 
Lobach served as an aviation officer from January 2019 to January 2025, according to the Army. She was assigned to the 12th Aviation Battalion at  Ft Belvoir, Virginia, and her awards include the Army Commendation Medal, Army Achievement Medal, National Defense Service Medal and Army Service Ribbon.
Originally from Durham, North Carolina, Lobach enlisted in the North Carolina National Guard as a Simultaneous Membership Program cadet in December 2018 and was commissioned the following summer through her college ROTC program, said her friend 1st Lt. Samantha Brown

[MonkMode]

You heard wrong.

PAT25 was at 300 feet. The PSA flight was on short final, and descending through 300 feet when they collided. It wasn’t a head on collision, it was a crossing collision. The PSA flight was almost 90 degrees to PAT25.

The PSA flight was initially cleared to land on 01, which would have had them pointing at PAT25 on approach, and kept them separated. Instead they were changed to runway 33, which required a right turn out of PAT25s direct vision (they were on night vision goggles which eliminates peripheral vision). The PSA then turned back to line up on 33, which turned their lights across the nose of PAT25, effectively turning them almost invisible until they were in front of PAT25. The crew of PAT25 would have recognized them at the last second and tried to avoid them, which would look like them turning into the PSA.

Well I appreciate you corrected me on that 1500 foot altitude error. I had heard that on another forum from someone claiming to be a flight expert.

I believed it because I heard on the radio: PAT25 was told of an approaching CRJ just south of the Woodrow bridge at 1200 feet setting up for runway 33. Then visual separation approved.

Looks like the CRJ had descended to 300 feet by the time they collided.

In any case, the reference the Woodrow bridge, pinpointed the CRJ precisely.

Did PAT25 not know where the Woodrow bridge is???

I doubt it, so there is still no excuse, if visual separation was approved, for PAT25 to not have seen the CRJ it hit, IMO.

I still think PAT25 went on a collision course, and turned into the CRJ, from an opposing angle, at the very moment the CRJ turned toward runway 33.

I have now heard 300 feet is still about 100 feet higher than PAT25 was approved to fly.

Yes they crossed paths, they weren’t heading at each other in a straight line, but looks their fronts collided, judging by the radar screen. Even if it turns out PAT25 hit them from the side, I still think PAT25 intentionally swerved and ascended to collide with the CRJ.

[Zaphod58]

Well I appreciate you corrected me on that 1500 foot altitude error. I had heard that on another forum from someone claiming to be a flight expert.

I believed it because I heard on the radio: PAT25 was told of an approaching CRJ just south of the Woodrow bridge at 1200 feet setting up for runway 33. Then visual separation approved.

Looks like the CRJ had descended to 300 feet by the time they collided.

In any case, the reference the Woodrow bridge, pinpointed the CRJ precisely.

Did PAT25 not know where the Woodrow bridge is???

I doubt it, so there is still no excuse, if visual separation was approved, for PAT25 to not have seen the CRJ it hit IMO.

I still think PAT25 went on a collision course, and turned into the CRJ at the very moment the CRJ turned toward runway 33 from an opposing angle.

I have now heard 300 feet is still about 100 feet higher than PAT25 was approved to fly.

Yes they crossed paths, they weren’t heading at each other in a straight line, but looks their fronts collided, and PAT25 intentionally swerved and ascended to collide with the CRJ.

Have you looked at the ADS-B images of the area at the time? There were two other planes near the bridge at the time the CRJ made their right turn to line up for 33. The crew of PAT25 would have seen lights, roughly where they would expect the CRJ to be, and assume that was the CRJ. Even if they correctly identified the CRJ at first, they wouldn’t have been looking at it constantly. Look down to check instruments, or to the side to clear airspace around them, the CRJ turns, the crew of PAT25 looks back in front of them, sees lights exactly where they expect to see them, and never realizes that the CRJ turned and misidentifies the next flight as the CRJ they’re supposed to pass behind.

There’s no evidence PAT25 did anything but a last minute evasion attempt, no matter how many times you repeat that they pulled up onto them deliberately.

[pianopraze]

FWIW this doesn't sound like a DEI hiring issue at all. Just a tragic mistake in an incredibly busy air corridor 

It all depends on the number of pilots admitted, passed through training, and thier assignments. Additionally, if the standards were changed which doesn't sound like the case here, she would become an aviation officer in 2019



BNO News Live

@BNODesk
·
23m
The second pilot of the Black Hawk helicopter involved in the D.C. mid-air collision has been identified as Rebecca Lobach, 28. Rebecca also served as a military social aide at the White House, helping the president host events and ceremonies.
 

Tragic. RIP

Not DEI problem

 I saw her name posted yesterday on Twitter. This just official release? Between Twitter and DI the regular news feel like snails filmed in slow-motion.

[Zaphod58]

Tragic. RIP

Not DEI problem

 I saw her name posted yesterday on Twitter. This just official release? Between Twitter and DI the regular news feel like snails filmed in slow-motion.

They are on to the Philly crash. This is last weeks news.

[MonkMode]

Have you looked at the ADS-B images of the area at the time? There were two other planes near the bridge at the time the CRJ made their right turn to line up for 33. The crew of PAT25 would have seen lights, roughly where they would expect the CRJ to be, and assume that was the CRJ. Even if they correctly identified the CRJ at first, they wouldn’t have been looking at it constantly. Look down to check instruments, or to the side to clear airspace around them, the CRJ turns, the crew of PAT25 looks back in front of them, sees lights exactly where they expect to see them, and never realizes that the CRJ turned and misidentifies the next flight as the CRJ they’re supposed to pass behind.

There’s no evidence PAT25 did anything but a last minute evasion attempt, no matter how many times you repeat that they pulled up onto them deliberately.

JIA 5342 was just south of the Woodrow bridge exactly when DCA said it was, and visual approved. Did you see 2 planes at the bridge at exactly that time? I didn’t.

If PAT25 saw them when told, there is no excuse that they lost sight of them as they approached the runway.

And there is no excuse they didn’t see them when told exactly where they were either.

It has also been reported they were not approved to fly above 200 feet so that is another inexcusable action from PAT25.

My opinion is that is 3 strikes against them, no coincidence.

[Zaphod58]

The NTSB update for today:

The CRJ showed 325 feet, plus or minus 25 feet
The UH-60 CSMU hasn’t been read yet due to water intrusion
The UH-60 cab controller screen may have shown 200 feet
The CVR of the CRJ showed an audible reaction to the helicopter, and an attempt to pull up was made one second before impact.


https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/psa-a...ington-dc/