Liverpool Parade Accused Pleads Not Guilty

[andy06shake]

But if PTSD was the cause of the dangerous driving then why not bring this problem to light? That does not mean that he can just walk away without consequences, because he should have dealt with this problem before getting behind the wheel of a car. He should be culpable for his actions, or inactions in ensuring he was not a danger to others.

Who knows what changes can be implemented for one to be able to keep one's driver's license, or prove competence, for the safety of the public at large?

I think you might be answering your own question with wanting to keep one's own driver's license.

Yeah, there have to be consequences when you manage to hurt all those people.

As the danger to others simply goes without contest, given his actions.

I think the not guilty pleas on all counts will be more about tactics, and possibly hoping for some sort of plea deal.

Better to do so before any sort of jury trial ensues through, because again, judges dont like people who waste time and resources.

That's just a fact prevalent in most judicial systems.

[quintessentone]

I think you might be answering your own question with wanting to keep one's own driver's license.

Yeah, there have to be consequences when you manage to hurt all those people.

As the danger to others simply goes without contest, given his actions.

I think the not guilty pleas on all counts will be more about tactics, and possibly hoping for some sort of plea deal.

Better to do so before any sort of jury trial ensues through, because again, judges dont like people who waste time and resources.

That's just a fact prevalent in most judicial systems.

This is speculation, but if he has PTSD and is taking meds, then there are two factors that might have contributed.
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"Driving while taking PTSD medications can be risky, as many medications can cause side effects such as drowsiness, dizziness, and impaired judgment.

• Consult Your Doctor: Always discuss with your healthcare provider about the potential risks of driving while taking PTSD medications, especially if you are experiencing side effects. 
  
  
  
• Monitor Your Reaction: Be aware of how your medications affect you; if you feel drowsy or unable to concentrate, it is best to avoid driving. 
  
  
  
• Consider Professional Help: Cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) and other treatments can help manage PTSD symptoms and improve driving abilities. 
  
  
  
• Stay Informed: Understand the specific medications you are taking and their effects on driving, as some may impair your ability to operate a vehicle safely. 
  
  
  Always prioritize safety and consult with a healthcare professional for personalized advice."
  

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It seems your government waits for the person/driver to inform the government of whether of not they have a mental illness, not their doctors being obliged to inform the government that they deem their patient not fit to drive a car from their clinical assessments.

"If you have a diagnosis of one of the following mental health problems, you only need to tell the DVLA if it affects your ability to drive (how many people will think that they can drive well even if they can not?):

• Agoraphobia
  
• Anxiety
  
• Depression
  
• Eating disorder
  
• Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD)
  
• Personality disorder
  
• Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)"
  

My right to drive with a mental health problem

[Kurokage]

It seems your government waits for the person/driver to inform the government of whether of not they have a mental illness, not their doctors being obliged to inform the government that they deem their patient not fit to drive a car from their clinical assessments.

"If you have a diagnosis of one of the following mental health problems, you only need to tell the DVLA if it affects your ability to drive (how many people will think that they can drive well even if they can not?):

I've always thought allowing those with a very serious health concern to inform the DVLA a bad idea.
I have a friend who's father was diagnosed with dementia and kept driving. He didn't realise how dangerous his driving had got, and so they had to take the vehicle of him. This should've been done by a Doctor informing the DVLA.

I don't think he was suffering from 'something' when the Liverpool incident happened. I honestly think the driver thought he could follow the ambulance and beat the traffic, not realising he'd turn into the crowds, who didn't take kindly to his vehicle being there.  I think as soon as someone kicked his vehicle, he panicked (not wanting his vehicle damaged) and tried to drive through the crowd.

Not pleading guilty (in my opinion) shows his lack of remorse for the incident. If it was health related, he would of plead guilty and his solicitor would of given his reasons why it happened.

[quintessentone]

I've always thought allowing those with a very serious health concern to inform the DVLA a bad idea.
I have a friend who's father was diagnosed with dementia and kept driving. He didn't realise how dangerous his driving had got, and so they had to take the vehicle of him.

But I don't think he was suffering from 'something' when the incident happened. I honestly think the driver thought he could follow the ambulance and beat the traffic, not realising he'd turn into the crowds, who didn't take kindly to his vehicle being there.  I think as soon as someone kicked his vehicle, he panicked (not wanting his vehicle damaged) and tried to drive through the crowd.

Not pleading guilty (in my opinion) shows his lack of remorse for the incident. If it was health related, he would of plead guilty and his solicitor would of given his reasons why it happened.

So I should have read the news article first, but are you saying he was stopped near a crowd, where one person kicked his car which then may have caused high anxiety in him?

I will most likely follow the trial..."The trial, expected to last up to four weeks, is due to begin on 25 November."

[ReturnofBroccoli]

Ex Royal Marine….
I wonder if PTSD will be coming up in his defense?

Personally I don’t understand it fully as I have never served in a military/combat role, but having 30+ years as a street Medic I have been shot at and seen some nasty things.

I am just saying that some people are more susceptible to it than others and I have seen it used as a defense. I will try to keep up on it as the case progresses.

As usual, my 2 pesos….

Tecate

That one time you got shot at, were you forced to stay and return fire while your best friends around you exploded in your face or did you simply get the hell out of there because that may be the difference and I hope it brought you clarity

I think it was a simple dumb mistake though not someone having a breakdown, he wouldnt have remorse for it and probably would have done a lot more damage

[Kurokage]

So I should have read the news article first, but are you saying he was stopped near a crowd, where one person kicked his car which then may have caused high anxiety in him?

I will most likely follow the trial..."The trial, expected to last up to four weeks, is due to begin on 25 November."

 Liverpool Football Club were celebrating the club's Premier League victory with a parade on 26th May. Streets had been closed/cordoned off by authorities so supporters were on the streets celebrating.  A person had suffered a possible heart attack, and an ambulance had been called and was on route.
The driver of the vehicle had decided to try to follow the ambulance, possibly thinking he could get through traffic or crowds? Instead of stopping when he realised he turned onto the closed roads with hundreds of people, he continued to try to drive through the crowd.  
He knew he shouldn't be there, and the crowds also knew he shouldn't be there. People started to punch and kick his car and the door was also opened (had to re-watch the video to jog my memory of the event.)
If he had just stopped once he realised he was he amongst the celebrating supporters and couldn't continue, the incident wouldn't have escalated like it did.

I just don't see how he could plead not guilty? He was in charge of the vehicle when it ploughed into the crowd even if there was unknown or unforeseen circumstances.

Here is the video of the incident, for those that what to know what happened.  

[Tecate]

I agree that allowing the person to let the Motor Vehicle Administration people is likely not going to happen.
I also think that if the Doctor who diagnosed the driver with a mental health condition is letting them know at the DMV, then there has to be a type of graded system, meaning that the condition is controlled with MEDS that may impact their ability to drive, the condition is controlled without MEDS, etc.

Let’s be real, how many people are going to tell the DMV that they shouldn’t be driving?

My 2 pesos…


Tecate

[Oldcarpy2]

I have no idea what his defence is going to be.

I can't see self defence being a runner, and any PTSD angle would only be in mitigation.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Kurokage]

I agree that allowing the person to let the Motor Vehicle Administration people is likely not going to happen.
I also think that if the Doctor who diagnosed the driver with a mental health condition is letting them know at the DMV, then there has to be a type of graded system, meaning that the condition is controlled with MEDS that may impact their ability to drive, the condition is controlled without MEDS, etc.

Let’s be real, how many people are going to tell the DMV that they shouldn’t be driving?

My 2 pesos…


Tecate

I agree. people can be selfish idiots, rather than thinking about passengers and members of the public's safety, they only think about their own situation.  They think their driving is a right and not a privilege even if a health issue has serious effects on that.

[Oldcarpy2]

He wasn't driving a BMW, by any chance?